I feel like ever since The Incredibles everyone has tried to lampshade the villain monologue, but never did so as well as that scene with Syndrome. Like he lampshaded the whole "villain monologue" thing by realizing he was monologuing and stopping halfway through when the hero was about to take advantage of the lapse in attention, but this was IN CHARACTER as he was a superhero fanboy and knew that, in the superhero world in which he lived, this was a legitimate strategy the heroes used to get the upper hand and was able to address it while keeping the fourth wall intact for the story. The Incredibles has awesome examples of really well done lampshading, "No capes!" being another stand-out example.
I mean, Ultron was a really, really good example of it when he mentions wanting to take the time to explain his evil plan. He had access to the internet and Tony, who makes pop-culture references himself, Is one of his creators so of course it makes perfect sense for him to say something like that.
It also works because the incredibles is kind of breaking stereotypes/ calling out tropes in superhero stories by showing contradictions/ subverting expectations to what we think a superheroes life would be like, so syndrome calling himself out works in story as well as in character
While we're talking about subversions of the "villain puts his plan at risk by needlessly monloguing" trope, I have to bring up Watchmen (obviously spoilers, but it's a pretty famous line by now) where after several pages of the villain explaining his grand plan to save the world at the cost of millions of lives, this exchange happens: "Adrian, I'm sorry... you need help. I know this 'half New York' stuff is bullshit, but I'm still glad we got here before you got deeper into this mess. Christ, you seriously _planned_ all this mad scientist stuff? I mean, when was this hopeless black fantasy supposed to happen? When were you planning to _do_ it?" - "'Do it'? Dan, I'm not a Republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my masterstroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome? I did it thirty-five minutes ago." Followed by two full-width panels of complete silence as the horror of that revelation sinks in for both the heroes and the reader.
@ckl There's something like that in Watchman. Ozzy monologues his plan to the good guys, then reveals that it's not something he's planning to do, it's something that already happened.
@ckl Naruto Shippuden actually does something sort-of like that. The main villain Tobi reveals his evil plan to the leaders of the five ninja villages, leading to them refusing his demands and Tobi declaring war on them. Tobi is telling the truth for the most part, but he leaves out key details; the biggest one being that he _wants_ them to go to war against him; part of his plan requires there being an army at his doorstep.
An excellent example of this is in the Fresh Prince of Bel Air where Will calls attention to the fact his Aunt Viv has been recast by saying she looks different since she's had another kid and where he jokes "if we so rich how come we don't have a ceiling?" And the camera pans up to the studio lights.
For the same show, there was a fun bit in the episode ‘Will’s Misery’, where Will had decided to get back at Carlton for a prank during his date with Lisa (which caused him to get dunked on by Lisa and her society colleagues), by making Carlton think he killed her with a rock. This prompts Carlton to scream and cry, running out of the kitchen through the door, comes back in and drags himself across the floor, running in the cabin, the audience, the school set and finally the camera landing on the actor as he dashed into Will’s arms.
I feel like that note about using lampshading as a means of apologizing for inadequacy being a BAD idea is a great lesson to teach. Speaking as someone who writes in their spare time, I almost feel called out.
Or like how SheHulk resolved its whole season by use of a lampshade (breaking out of the show and complaining to the writers) to making up for its bad writing by trying to say that bad writing was intentional in the first place. It didnt work. Also the fact that the character used it to avoid consequences for their actions, leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
My favourite brand of lampshading is a frequent gag in classic Looney Tunes where a character is flipping out and making a lot of noise only to suddenly stop, look at the camera, and say something like "This is kinda silly, isn't it?" in a completely calm voice before _immediately_ returning to what they were doing as if nothing happened.
A classic one is where a Wicked Witch is the antagonist to Bugs Bunny and spends most of the cartoon trying to kill him. At last, she turns into a lovely Lady Bunny. Bugs falls in love. As they march off the screen, arm in arm, Bugs turns to us and says, "Yea. I know. But aren't they all, just a little bit?"
OOH OOOH OHH (This owwta get me an academy awahd!) OOH! Especially funny because bug bunny shorts kept getting nominated but losing, for almost 20 years. So it's not just a 4th wall, but a "5th wall" break, acknowledging not just that it's a picture in a theatre, but the goings on of the film industry at large beyond the theatre you're in.
Or like the bug bunny episode were it was a parady of the invasion of the pod people; bugs is running and screaming, then stops and says the camera "you know folks, this is the scaryest part of the picture" then continues running and screaming
Reminds me of an episode where bugs bunny pretended he was having a heart attack, and called for a doctor. They added the silhouette of an audience to the bottom of the shot, and someone got up and said they were a doctor. You can guess what bugs bunny said next.
Favorite lampshade: Scooby Doo and the gang discover that the woman they've been talking to, and her dog, are extraterrestrials. The dog speaks to them and Daphne, shocked, says, "A talking dog!" Fred quietly says, "Imagine that."
I think the moment also works diageticly because presumably the gang has only ever interacted with Scooby-Doo and thus presumed his ability to speak to people unique.
Also this moment in The Cyber Chase Fred: Okay, gang, let's split up *Shaggy and Scooby turn and walk away.* Fred: Wait guys, I didn't say how we were going to split up. Shaggy: Like, do we do it any other way?
@Victor Jr I remember that Time in what's new Scooby Doo where they try to spice it up and habe Shaggy and Fred go together while the rest go sonewhere else Both agree to never do that Type of pairing ever again
The separation of artist from audience did not begin with the technology of cinema, but with writing. It really only became familiar to the general populace with the invention of movable type, and therefore inexpensive printing, which led to the rise of the novel as we know it today. And lampshading has been in novels from the beginning: Don Quixote is probably the earliest novel still widely read today, and it begins by telling the reader which romances it is parodying.
I think writing is a bit different - because written stories usually require some sort of "author's narrative" to describe everything. So the possibility of such narrative to address the reader, is not that disruptive as it is for visual stories where we usually don't have it, we experience circumstances of the world directly.
@Zalmoksis44 I considered Lucian too, so evidently great minds think alike. But I decided to stick to works widely-known then and now. I often find it hard to tell whether ancient literature was meant to be read for pleasure, or recited as a performance for other people. Lucian probably belongs in the first category, Homer in the second.
Well, taking into account what Lucian did in "A True Story", I wouldn't be surprised if there was some ancient example of lampshading as well. You don't need general populace to make jokes like that. A bunch of well-read readers is enough.
Austin Powers : Wait a tick. Basil, if I travel back to 1969 and I was frozen in 1967, presumably, I could go back and visit my frozen self. But, if I'm still frozen in 1967, how could I have been unthawed in the '90s and travelled back to. Oh, no, I've gone cross-eyed. Basil Exposition : I suggest you don't worry about those things and just enjoy yourself. [to camera] That goes for you all, too.
Maybe an example of Lampshading I thought worked??? Dr Sivian vs Shazam. They're a near mile away from eachother and the doctor is giving a very dramatic monolog and the music is suitably dramatic, then it cuts to Billy having no music and barely hearing his voice above a whisper. It completely undercut the drama and scariness of the doctor but in the best way possible and also helped remind us that huge and buff Zachary Levi is playing a kid, so of course he's not taking this seriously
@Ipsum quaerere This will probably be non-relatable to you, but there is a wrestler called Samoa Joe who does that in his moveset: When he is standing and a faster wrestler goes to the ropes and jumps off them (usually like bouncing) he just gets out of the way merely by walking WHILE he is rolling his eyes or shaking his head in disbelief that people STILL try to do that to him. If you are interested, look for "Samoa Joe walks away" and there should be compilations. It is very funny to watch.
so I take it that this isn't that one trope where a character will attempt to 'hide in plain sight' by putting on a lampshade and pretending to be a lamp?
My favorite part about Airplane and the Naked Gun movies. They're totally absurd and the characters acknowledge that (to an extent) while also playing it totally straight
@Ze Project irónically teen titans go can make it work when the titans seem to actually genuinely like each other. Like in the movie Is in the tv show were the joke eventually stops being funny after repeating it so much
I think my favorite example of lampshading is in The Owl House of the season 2 episode 19. Eda asks "wouldn't you rather have a beach day?" And Luz replies "I would if we had time for 20 more adventures" being a nudge to Disney cutting the show short and not letting them make another full seasons.
And that one in Gravity Falls where Dipper and Mabel find a board game, and Dipper says 'This should take up the next 21 minutes', referring to the typical length of an episode.
Still Extremely Mad over how Disney Basically Murdered the Owl House because “It’s not Disney Brand”, Despite picking up the show and Putting it on the Air, and Amphibia showing the Deaths of Two 13 year old Girls… On Screen… Alright, one didn’t die, But she was impaled THROUGH THE CHEST!
Although I agree with what you said about Marvel, as in that it often undercuts it's emotional moments with a joke, as if it's insecure with it's own feelings, as weird as it sounds, I have to defend the Guardians of the Galaxy. The whole point of this movies is that it's characters are in the end a bunch of insecure people that hide behind layers and layers of mental barriers. For Quill it's humor, for Gamorra it's general coldness and distancing herself, Rocket is acting like an asshole and Drax is putting up sort of a macho act. The scene you presented, with Gamorra putting a knife to Quill's throat after holding hands with him, is hardly an exaple of emotional scene interrupted by a ha ha funny joke. It just showcasess the mental barriers both her and Quill have. He tries to woo her like any other woman because of his insecurities, and she feels threatened and overreacts because of her own barriers blocking her. It's completely in character for them and doesn't break the scene. In fact it would be weirder if they kissed here or something. It's the same with many scenes in Guardians. James Gunn manages to use Marvel style humor in an effective way, and can even enhance the drama by using it. It's a rare talent, and other writers of Marvel try to emulate the humor, but forget the character part, and hence we have the immersion breaking goofy jokes that are plaguing the MCU now.
I was gonna say something like this, but you beat me to it. Especially in the scene about "standing up in a circle", it seems to showcase Rocket's insecurity rather than the director's
I really like the lamp shading in The Incredibles, because it is mostly done by Syndrome - and it makes sense for Syndrome to be totally genre-savvy! He’s lampshading hero movie tropes not because he’s *in* a superhero movie, but because he’s in a world where superheroes actually exist and he was a huge fan of them. This works really well because The Incredibles is just as much a superhero movie as it is a parody of them. Having the audience stand-in there ready to critique the tropes of superhero movies works, because the movie itself isn’t held up by those tropes. Also, the “no capes!” Bit, which is maybe only barely lampshading, but manages to hide that it is also foreshadowing!
The "no capes" gag was complete serendiptiy as animating cloth is a bitch, especially for early 2000s animation, and Pixar didn't have the capacity, skill, or patience to render capes. So they came up with "no capes" and a montage of supes having several cape-related accidents and the whole thing wound becoming a plot point in Syndrome's demise.
A good lampshade is a punchline to a joke you didn't realize was being told, a bad lampshade is someone interrupting a story to throw out a self-deprecating one liner out of nowhere.
I like the one episode of Archer where he produces a grenade seemingly out of nowhere... Lana: "Where did you get that grenade?" Archer: "It was hanging on a lampshade!"
@MuriKakari "Wow that's some scary stuff! Should we be worried about the kids in the audience?" "No it's alright. This is culture." That cracks me up every time.
Well, she has previously. Not sure if she has in a Trope Talk, but I know she did in the video on King Arthur, while explaining the concept of courtly love.
"Apologizing for your art preemptively is always a bad idea." 90% of ao3: *sweats* Edit: HOLY FRICK WAS NOT EXPECTING ALL THE LIKES thank you so much!!!
Yes. I've never apologized for my work, and I never will. And I do get turned off by writers who crawl on their bellies to apologize. If someone gets too apologetic I just figure their story isn't worth reading and move on.
One bit of lampshading that our D&D group has done from time-to-time that I love is where a character references something that doesn't exist in that world and another character asks "what's X?," for the first character to reply (often distraught) "I don't know!"
In a collaborative crossover writing project I was part of we had a character who partially ran on chaos, and the absurdity of making references he had no way of knowing, since the story is set in a largely fantastical world. In once scene he'd magically manifest a flashbang grenade on instinct, yell "FLASH OUT", then moments later ask what "FLASH OUT" actually meant. Another character however is from a world similar to ours (there's a lot of multiverse fuckery going on, as is tradition for crossovers), who understands the references, but only reveals it very late into the story as another gag.
My character lampshaded one of the campaign antagonists in their introduction scene Basically I stood up to this brute, who is the leader of the country's biggest merc/bandit army, and he says that if I'm gonna challenge him, let's make it a fun challenge He proceeds to have his men tie up several NPCs, puts apples on their heads, and hands me a bow asking "how are your archery skills?" I proceeds to look the DM dead in they eye and respond in character "really? You're going for this cliché?"
A great example of the "story within a story" is the episode The Ember Island Players from Avatar, where they essentially recap the whole story up to that point while also making fun of things like the fact that the main characters are all kids or teenagers or Zuko's characterization in Season 1.
@egg imagine if he remained friends with the actor portraying him or everyone being surprised that the change of "toph being a buff man" stays exactly as it is.
@Ian R. Nava Huber it's now my headcanon that Sokka was wildly involved with theatre retellings of the Gaang's antics, particularly regarding the comedy. The writers probably hated him.
@egg makes you wonder what happened to the "boy in the iceberg'" play after zuko became the firelord... Sure maybe some rewrites there and there to account the finale..... Also Imagine if Sokka asked to help with said rewrites.... and the actor playing him realized "wait, he IS THE REAL SOKKA?!"
It's excellence is furthered even more when you realise the play makes sense in universe. The play is basically fire nation propaganda; that's why our protagonists are absolute dorks and the villains are powerful and cunning.
@bibbobella ESPECIALLY the way the play ends as it teases their final confrontation that, for the fire nation habitants IS THE HAPPY ENDING, but for them, it might be their doom
Wow, I didn't realize how critical of a topic this would be at first glance. This is like eating a meal and thinking there's something off about it, and then having someone come in and say "it's the garlic, because you're allergic to it". Mind-expanding, in fewer words. Great work as always!
I think I've seen this a few times: imagine a cartoon character opening their wardrobe and we see dozen of identical pieces or clothing. Then the character is like "what will I wear today?" yet we know they're gonna wear their character design clothing, and surely they then proceed to do so
Then there's a joke where the character takes two clothes, the usual attire and a different one, they throw the different attire away and dress up in the same clothes.
Hades does something similar. Hades, the antagonist, will burn off his cape for his intro sequence every time you fight him. The protagonist, Zagreus, comments on him always having a cape to burn. Later you find Hades does actually have a wardrobe full of capes.
The way emperor new groove lampshaded itself is honestly one of the reason why I love this movie. They know that their entire world dosnet make sense in the slightest and they take that fact and run with it without a shread of insecurity in their heart. And I just love it.
@Man Upon the Precipice the Best part of that joke is that kuzco is answering his own question without knowing.... And Even if he was aware, the fact he got out of the Trap so easily make the "lever Trap" Even more pointless
That movie is a gem, and I never want Disney to remake it in live action. I'd rather they give "The Black Cauldron" anther go (hint, hint) tan "Emperor's New Groove".
@maddie I wasn't too bothered by the Hawkeye comment in Age of Ultron because it wasn't ALL superheroes he was questioning, just himself in that moment.
I think that's the key to lampshading effectively: if it comes from a place of insecurity, the audience can tell. Good examples like New Groove and Spiderverse lampshade silliness because it adds to the joke; a lot of mediocre superhero movies will instead lampshade what should be sincere emotional beats because the writers apparently assume audiences will be embarrassed to be too emotionally invested. Classic example being Avengers: Age of Ultron: let's undercut this dramatic fight scene by having everyone's least-favorite Avenger acknowledge how silly _the concept of superheroes_ (you know, the _basic premise of the movie)_ is.
I love your use of The Emperor's New Groove for the "Hoe do these characters get from point to point so fast" considering that it did not have a proper script, and frequently improved how they got from point A to Point B because they knew they needed to get from point to point, but had no idea how.
The Bible is truth. Please take your salvation seriously. At least read three books of the Bible, Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember that As you do, to genuinely open your heart up to the teachings Jesus Christ taught. Start with forgiveness. Parents are easiest. They’ve loved you to some degree. Forgiveness heals your soul. Please, trust me. Genuinely break down before Jesus Christ and ask for forgiveness. It is extremely important. Please. All who seek find, Jesus Christ is Lord,
There is actually an exception for this and that is meta stories and, or characters that know that they are inside a fictional universe. It's not uncommon for tropes to be a story point of themselves that has to be recognized and overcome
I love these videos because they help with my writing. I’m able to take what I learn (being an amateur) and use it during the editing stage to fix the problems I didn’t even notice was there. It also helps when I notice a problem by giving me help on what that problem is, and I can use that to fix the issue.
@Josh Abraham Having never mentioned either "medicare blockbusters" (whatever _those_ are) nor "right wing grifters" in this comment thread, I have no idea what you're talking about.
One of my favorites is from The Phantom of the Opera: "You'd never get away with all this in a play But if it's loudly sung and in a foreign tongue It's just the sort of story audiences' adore In fact, it's the perfect opera!"
I'd like to throw in an example of what I can only describe as reverse lamp-shading: in a manga called Medaka Box (which is my personal favorite manga of all time) one of the characters is so stupidly strong that they are convinced that they are living in a fabricated story where they are the main character (which, of course, is true) and that as a result they cannot possibly fail at anything and there is an entire arc about this character attempting to do something impossible to prove that the world isn't real Medaka Box doesn't hide the fourth wall breaks with a lampshade they put a magnifying glass up to it, they really want you to see and care about the parts of the cracks in the fourth wall
So, where does the phrase "hanging a lampshade" come from? Like, I know it's the concept of hanging a lampshade on a boom mic that somehow made its way into the shot, but where did that concept come from? Was there an "I Love Lucy" episode where, in an act of improv genius, she set a lampshade on a mic or some other studio element not meant for the shot?
The trope name came from where a character would be in a situation in which they are attempting to hide from someone or something and, barring any actual, realistic options for hiding effectively, decides to put a lampshade over their head and pretend to be a lamp, which in turn miraculously works as a means of stealth despite all reasonable logic dictating that it shouldn't. It's technically a plot hole in and of itself, but as the character themselves usually acknowledges that it shouldn't have worked, it turns into this trope instead.
so, I do not know if the author was doing it intentionally, but theres a webnovel called "he who fights with monsters", the protagonist basically gets isekaid to a magical world, gets powers yada yada yada. The way he copes with this however is by, effectively, lampshading. He constantly references movies and pop-culture from our world, because he is from our world. he calls out when something is cliche (like criticizing the bratty noble for not having greasy enough hair, calling out when someone is monolouging etc). But as the series progresses and he goes through more shit, it becomes this facade he puts up, like hes alright when he really just isnt. Honestly I know many people dont like LitRPGs and isekais in general, and yes the story has its faults, but if you want to chekc it out, the first couple chapters and the most recent ones are on royalroad and the rest is on Audible or as Paperback
My favourite is the narrative in Guards Guards by Terry Pratchett where the men of the Watch acknowledge that to kill the dragon it'd have to be a one million shot according to the stories, so they take steps to make the shot more difficult, and when they miss they dismiss the shot as the not actually being a million to one. Completely acknowledging the forth wall, flirting with breaking it then not actually doing so.
He often referred to narrative necessity - as in "with no regard for narrative necessity...." But dedicated re-readers are continually surprised by new layers of punning and humour.
This reminds me so much of the time Dynasty added a *third* Cristal because the second Cristal got her own show and they called a family meeting specifically to lampshade it- I actually loved it.
The works of Michael Schur (The Good Place, Brooklyn Nine-Nine, Parks and Rec) are some of the best examples of sincere lampshading. The type of lampshading that doesn’t distract from the story or reveal insecurity about it but rather enhances it. When a character is excited the writing will highlight the absurdity of what they’re excited about, not necessarily the fact that they are excited, and when the real emotional beats happen they’re more impactful
@Safehouse There are also those times when a show has a natural end but its ending still isn't great. Like Brooklyn Nine-Nine had to end when it did, and while its ending wasn't bad, it wasn't especially good either.
@Nai 2013 those are there too what I mean is so many of them end in 1 of 3 ways that is never satisfying. 1. They cancel the series so we get left with a cliffhanger that never gets resolved. 2. And so the story goes on in an unending adventure that you will have to use your imagination to find out. 3. Half assed ending that was made just to end the series before the cancelation.
@Safehouse If you think that's one of the few live-action television shows with a good ending, you need to watch more television. Start with Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul.
@Joseph Perez I know it was soooo good. It was one of the few nonanimated shows where the ending was amazing imo it was just so satisfying. On a side note Life Unexpected has the worse ending imo because they decided to write an ending because it was going to get cancelled so they threw all the plot points from the last season out the window in one episode and made up a perfect happy ending that made no sense. Ending the series on a unresolved season finale cliffhanger would had been better than tainting the show for me with that ending. While, You, me and the apocalypse has the most infuriating endings that was deliberately planned from the start.
One of the most heartbreaking scenes I've read relied completely on the concept of lampshading. So, in this story, character A is going to die, and based on the internal logic of the work there's absolutely no way to save them, but then! A dramatic rescue happens! And the main character wonders how the rescue party managed to get there so fast, since the trip should have taken at least three days, in a way that fully makes you think it's lampshading, they got there faster than should have been possible because the author needed them to get there, right? So even though there's a plot hole there, you believe it, the main pointed out the plot hole! Relax, you can ignore it! Look, they rescued A, isn't that great?! Look at these nice scenes of everyone hugging and celebrating!!! A is alive!!! Of course they weren't going to kill A! A is a super important character!! Can you fucking imagine!! ....And then. And then, it's revealed that rescue scene was what the main character WISHED had happened, what he hoped for in the split second before A dies. And A dies, A absultely dies, of course no one was going to save them, no rescue ever arrived, we told you there was no way A would survive, did you really think we would bend the world's logic to save one character? Ha! It really worked brillantly. You get the big, tenses supense of whether the story is really going to kill A, followed by the relief of "Of course the story wouldn't kill them!" followed by the shock of realizing "Oh holy shit they actually killed them for real!!!". Reading that I really felt the main character's disbelief, the "No, no, this can't be happening!", it was an amazing use of the audience's awareness of this trope, just thinking about how they executed it gives me chills.
I know a semi-horror movie that work with this idea, except it has no lampshade. It has a complete arc that end not happening with the character hallucinating and getting back to reality only because they hurt themselves for real while hallucinating. It is even more contrariant because the whole arc of hallucination have them rescuing themselves through multiples struggles to overcome and a realistic lense, while the true rescue is completely surrealist, making you ask why it didn't happened since the beginning.
I think one of the variations on lampshading I hate the most is when a writer uses it to just acknowledge the problematic nature of a trope they're using and pretending that's the same as addressing the problem with that trope
@Braster Yakintosh oh my god that's a great example. i will forever despise the creators of big bang theory for that. dumb that they created tons of sexism for no reason other than "funny moments" but its so much worse when you think about the way they adressed it.
@First Last My go-to example is Big Bang Theory with its heavy sexism where the characters, especially Sheldon, are consistently extremely derogatory towards women, yet there's barely any consequences or serious confrontation about it other than eye rolls from Leonard, treating the sexism as just a goofy character trait that gets them into hijinks instead of as a serious problem to address. This especially feels incredibly tone deaf considering the show ran during and for several years after Gamergate
i was looking for this comment. it frustrates me so much to see a piece of media acknowledge that they're depicting a terrible thing (like a harmful stereotype, or having the heroes implicitly support a heinous act). the writers could use their power over their creative works to fix, deconstruct, or eliminate the issue, but instead they pretend that merely elbowing the audience in the ribs, saying "haha isn't that messed up". and then continuing to unironically lean into the problematic trope justifies them steamrolling ahead with immunity to critique. edit: i'm struggling to think of specific examples at the moment, but i recall a show that particularly frustrated me with using lampshading as a shield to deflect criticism of its own problematic writing is rick and morty.
Wait? Talking to thin air like it's a real person requires learning a new perspective? (looks at the thin space i frequently philosophize to for no reason other than I suddenly had an idea or forgot that I'm alone...) Oh....
I totally misunderstood lampshading. I thought it was spotlighting something to foreshadow it, like tilting a lampshade to aim the light to highlight something important. Turns out it's the opposite lol I have actually got really tired of how marvel does it. I love marvel and I think it'd be better if it didn't
The crown jewel of lampshading is the Incredibles's iconic "You got me monologuing" scene, where the villain gets so far down his own line of thinking he forgets he should just kill the damn hero instead of talking.
@Mike Sweeney I'd disagree with the 'doesn't realize he's being a SUPER' thing, only because his stated evil plan was to essentially destroy the pedestal that society placed Supers on as these amazing, rare individuals by making abd selling tech that would make them obsolete. I mean, his (nearly) final words to the family were "And when everyone is Super... no one will be."
The Bible is truth. Please take your salvation seriously. At least read three books of the Bible, Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember that As you do, to genuinely open your heart up to the teachings Jesus Christ taught. Start with forgiveness. Parents are easiest. They’ve loved you to some degree. Forgiveness heals your soul. Please, trust me. Genuinely break down before Jesus Christ and ask for forgiveness. It is extremely important. Please. All who seek find, Jesus Christ is Lord,
"As long as it has four walls and a roof we'll be happy." "Are you sure about that? Because rooms _without fourth wall_ seem to be really popular nowdays." [everybody stares directly at the reader and winks] - Order of the Stick
Something I heard a while ago that helped me stop pointing out all the flaws when I post art or writing is "don't advertise your mistakes." Because listen, you spent hours/days/weeks/years on this thing. You know it upside down and backwards, you know all the flaws (or at least what YOU consider flaws). But your audience? They'll never notice 99% of those things, so *quit pointing them out.* You'll have more confidence in yourself and your work when you accept that perfection is an impossible-to-reach concept. EDIT: Oh, and another thing: opening all your art/writing posts with "I know this is awful, but-" makes people less inclined to interact with you and your posts. Showing confidence in your own ability helps you get interactions online, too, if that's something you care about.
As a child, I always thought the ravine Yzma and Kronk fell in led to the gator pit that goes straight back to the "secret lab" lever...that's how I thought they got back first, and it totally made sense...
A great lampshade is in Avatar the last airbender when Aang just needs a rock to destroy the drill, and then a rock just falls where he needs it, and he's like "Actually, that's exactly what I needed for once". It works because things always seem to go wrong for him all the time, so him acknowledging this makes us sympathize with him. He's done all the painstaking work, one rock falling into place does not seem like a contrivance, even if it technically is.
@ckl I mean getting burned and basically turning blind since she sees with her feet is barely something I would consider "bonding" lmao but I guess it makes sense for her to not have one fieldtrip with Zuko, she was the only one that didn't have anything against him to start with
@KIDZ94 On the point about Deadpool, his character and stories regarding him are intentionally fascicle and over-the-top. If I recall correctly, one of the character's superpower is literally biasing random events toward favourable outcomes. It is mechanically similar to The Emperors New Groove in that they reach through the 4th wall so often that it becomes a feature of the story. There's also the Infinite Improbability Drive from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, which literally turns lampshading into a plot device we accept. Although doing so can still be problematic if used incorrectly.
@Mike Sweeney An Avatar/SG1 crossover is one thing I've never considered but now I want to see. I'll try to look it up but if you have a link that would help.
@Gabriel Dos Santos Toph did get the bonding fieldtrip with Zuko, arguably the first one when she found him trying to sneak up on their camp and he accidentally burned her feet.
Gosh, Red, I just love those dulcet tones of yours! I could listen to you meander around the point forever! And by the way I loved ReBoot, I totally watched the whole thing except for season four, you got any more media recommendations I'd like?
I tried my best to ignore the internet noise and watch She-Hulk without preconceived reservations, but that show does too much lampshading to the point of tackiness. It wasn’t great throughout, but it was fun enough to watch; if the finale was supposed to be cheeky, it failed. Instead, it came across to me like the writers going “ha! That sucked, right?”
You're one smart cookie, as my folks say. Have you read The Kingkiller Chronicle (Book 1: The Name of the Wind; book 2: The Wise Man's Fear) by Patrick Rothfuss? Very good fantasy where the protagonist of the inside story is the narrator of the frame narrative (which is him telling the story of his youth to two guys at a bar), allowing him to nod at the goofier bits while maintaining the integrity of the outermost fourth wall similar to Storyteller-Kuzco. My other favorite example of this is Terra Ignota (4 book series: Too Like the Lightning, Seven Surrenders, The Will to Battle, and Perhaps the Stars) by Ada Palmer, where the entire body of text is presented as a chronicle written by a madman commissioned by the world powers to record for Posterity and Truth the world-changing events of the year 2454. Both series are amazingly intricate and thought provoking as well as exciting, and I highly recommend them to anyone, but specifically to story analysis enthusiasts such as yourself. I can't really do them justice, but trust that they're better than I'm making them sound. Love the channel, and all your observations that make me go "thank god somebody articulated that thing I've felt but didn't know how to express." Thank you for doing what you're doing, and have fun!~
Not gonna lie, I actually talk with friends about how events in life would look if our lives were an anime. Hopefully that doesn't undercut any serious moments in my life to a hypothetical audience.
I'll always appreciate the Narrator Is A Character style. Shows like Love is War are basically MADE by having a narrator simultaneously omnisciently telling you the story, while also reacting like another audience member. It's like having a friend recount the story to you instead of just reading it straight.
I recently watched the Batman animated special where they had the whole cast of the Adam West series reprise their roles. It's just as silly as the original ("what sits in a tree and is extremely dangerous?" "A sparrow with a machine gun." "Obviously.") and what made it work so well was that they never winked to the camera and went "wow, that sure was zany". Everything was absolutely sincere which made it all even funnier.
One of my favorite bits of lampshading is in Lupin iii (in the dub anyway) where they’re hiding from gunfire behind an overturned table and Jigen says “Thank god for all these bullet-proof tables they got everywhere nowadays!”
As someone who has enjoyed a few stageplays in my life, breaking the fourth wall, when done properly, can actually immerse you more. One prime example of this is the musical Fangirls where, near the end of the first act, the stage turns into the stage of a fictional concert and the audience attends that concert. This envelops the audience into the world of the story, making it seem more real, and not less.
I haven’t finished the video yet but what Red is saying around 6-7 minutes in reminds me of something I once heard in drama class: if you mess up, don’t draw attention to it. If you’re in a group, most people won’t notice that you messed up unless you actively draw attention to it, and if you’re on your own, people won’t *know* you messed up unless you draw attention to it. Drawing attention to mistakes makes people notice them where they otherwise probably would have overlooked them. TLDR: roll with the punches, or if you want to be poetic about it “if you stumble make it part of the dance”
I used to lampshade a lot as a DM but recently stopped when I realized that my players are taking time out of their schedule every other week, on their days off, to sit at my table for a few hours and engage in this story and world I've made for them despite having literally no obligation to do so. And that's my message to y'all, my fellow creatives. Those who consume your work either literally with cooking or figuratively with physical engagement always have a moment where they voluntarily decide to do so, and make the time for it. So don't be afraid of your work, because half the battle is already won as soon as someone agrees to engage with it.
This is great advice, but only for certain media, sadly. For anything long-form this pretty much holds, but it only takes a second to see a piece of art in your feed and criticize it.
I really dig this, as a DM and now video maker-- the contrast between having people right there to looking at nothing but a lens sometimes makes it feel like you trade the fear of awkward social interaction for the fear of being judged by a world of people you cannot see. But as you said, no one's bring forced to engage with your stuff. It's strangely comforting to think about that, thanks for sharing!
@hweirdo Also true. But I find darker themes to be all the more poignant if balanced with a smidge of levity. Like being allowed half a breath during waterboarding.
After watching this video I now realize that my manuscript is chock-full of lampshading. I think when I was writing it, I had this mentality where I almost had to outsmart my own audience, because I expected my readers to be very trope-savvy. But a side effect of this is that my character's snarky banter often skirts dangerously close to outright breaking the fourth wall, which is the opposite of what I intended. I'll have to pay close attention to this for my final round of revisions.
The fact that this video came out within a week of the She-Hulk season 1 finale is a God-Tier universe coincidence. Unless red is hiding the fact that she knows someone at Marvel >_>
I think that my favorite take on this, outside of The Emperor's New Groove, is the horse in El Dorado. He'll break the forth wall, but he can't talk so it's all just expression work. I completely missed it my first time through.
@Lo no need to be sorry, I wasn’t upset, and you didn’t really do anything wrong, even if you did make a “mistake.” I do appreciate your apology. You give me the vibe that you’re good people.
There was a recurring lampshade in the Journey to the West series that Red was doing about why Monkey doesn't just fly them there. It wasn't entirely a serious series anyway, but it was pretty funny. Btw, any word on when the next one will be?
Personally, my favorite instance comes in Order of the Stick. It's a highly self-aware stick figure fantasy comic that nonetheless manages to capture all sorts of sincere emotion and heavy themes, so lampshade hanging is fairly common - to the extent that at one point, there's a lampshade hung ABOUT LAMPSHADE HANGING. It's great.
My favourite (recent) bit of lampshading is in Rise of the TMNT when Hypno-Potamus says to the turtles, "A good magician never reveals his plans, but a good villain always does. Oh, I'm torn guys. I've gotta be honest."
@The True Mr. Pink yes they are, as I’ve repeatedly pointed. The Turtles are Ninjas in name only in this show and are more like Kung Fu wizards, Splinter is a lazy uncaring old man, Shredder is a literal monster, Raph is the leader when in every other version makes it clear he’s not leader material because he’s brash and reckless. It’s incredibly divorced of the source material and I’m not interested
@The True Mr. Pink I said that because you missed the point of what I was saying despite repeating it. It was genuinely fascinating to me. I wasn’t insulting you or trying to be condescending. I have been talking about it but like I said you were missing the point. My point was that it’s nothing like it’s source material on a fundamental level that I had absolutely no interest in watching it because it has nothing that interests me. It’s literally that simple
@Broomer52 You really don't see how "it’s fascinating to me how someone can see the point, comment on that point and somehow still miss the point" isn't an insult? It's called being condescending, you prokaryotic organism, which was a tone I reflected back at you that you have just said you were insulted by. You brought this entire discussion to a standstill by not bringing the discussion anywhere. You brought up nothing else about the show other than that I was calling you an asshole, which I clearly didn't. You didn't explain your viewpoint to me at all beyond "the turtles weren't". I can't continue a conversation when there is no conversation to continue. So how about we stop jabbing at each other like kids on the playground and actually talk about the show?
@The True Mr. Pink they say “don’t judge a book by its cover” but that’s the purpose of the cover, to grab your attention. It simply failed to do that for me. How am i bringing it to a stand still? You took time to insult me rather than to argue the point and the got offended when I snapped back. My intention is to explain my viewpoint, not to insult you. I’m not even sure how you felt insulted.
@Broomer52 The only problem I have is really just how you're basing things off of surface-understanding of the show, and magic was the one I focused on in the beginning. You didn't maintain any argument or any form of defense, instead relegating your replies to offending me and bringing the discussion to a standstill. I don't need to paint you as a prick when you're that good at a self-portrait.
When I acted on stage, I felt more at ease to perform because the silence of the audience was like a consent, “Ok, we’re here now. Do you’re thing please.” Their subtle indicators helped me feel out how they were engaging, which helped me feel out how I was engaging in the story. I suppose I miss that last part the most.
10:09 My favorite moment like this is in the second Monkey Island game where if you die the game pauses for a beat before the person whom the flashback is being told to says "No you didn't"
The Last Unicorn is chock full of lampshades, but it used them to a great effect. The characters several times referred to their own roles in the story, and how they often fell short of the expectation, and it never felt comical. And the admission that the others would rather let Lady Amalthea remain a human so she could be with the prince, but the story was unfinished, and they couldn't stop it there made for some very conflicting darkest hour emotions.
My favorite kind of lampshade is when they use a lampshade to disguise foreshadowing. Basically: Character A establishes fact X Character B lampshades that X is troppy and unrealistic Later on it is revealed that character A was lying/wrong, which is why X seemed unrealistic to B. It was just false. Basically anytime a trope that is lampshaded turns out to be a subversion.
I'll always appreciate the Narrator Is A Character style. Shows like Love is War are basically MADE by having a narrator simultaneously omnisciently telling you the story, while also reacting like another audience member. It's like having a friend recount the story to you instead of just reading it straight.
@Steve Jakab I’m currently playing the giant in a production of Into the Woods and the narrator is genuinely one of my favorite characters, maybe only surpassed by Little Red and the Witch. It is SO fun to get to be in the scene where the characters practically sacrifice their own narrator.
8:08 The mantra of MST3K, when asked about how the "hosts" eat and breath, and other science facts (la, la, la!). I can excuse characters in something I watch joking about the weird situations around them if it's meant to be funny, in a parody or satire (and The Venture Brothers is really good at that). I think Marvel does it to suggest that its world is almost like ours, with most of the same popular entertainment that uses the same cliches the heroes find themselves in. And they use humor as a coping mechanism, especially Iron Man. He said "Yay!" after finding the secret door in HYDRA's castle.
I feel this with video essays sometimes. Sometimes the essayist says "now I already hear you furiously typing..." and I'm like "no, I was fully on board with what you were saying".
I think that's a bit different though - some things about lampshading still apply here, but from my experience, that's mostly used to bring up a possible counter-argument which then gets properly addressed
Lampshade is an interesting way to divert attention from foreshadowing plot elements. The audience is tricked from assuming that a plot element that is relevant is meaningless at first.
I think marvel went down the "lampshade everything" route because people were trying to be as smart-ass, "i'm better than this" forcefully sarcastic. there were a lot of comments of how could you feel anything on a marvel movie, those are superhero flicks. So they went sompletely into satire. First avengers movie has a lot of bickering and hostility, not that many jokes. And I absolutely agree htat they went way too far, actively forcing you not to feel anything. And why? Why is it not grown-up to feel anymore? why do we have to pretend fictional stories are not affecting us or even be ashamed of being engaged with the story unless it's artsy-fartsy independent swedish movie about traditional ice fishing doen by depressed alcoholics
After I watched this video for a writing guide, I went to watch the Finale of she-hulk... And GODDD.... I learned so much after watching this video. Spoiler alert: she-hulk sucked because of its Constant Lamp shading, and Among other things I don't wish to discuss.
For real. The 4th wall breaks in that finale were funny, like really funny. But you can't just solve the plot by leaving the show and forcing the writers to change it! That is one of the most unsatisfying things I have ever seen! They took all the conflict, all the build up and just changed it in the most anticlimactic way possible. They literally edited in the solution.
2:59 And I just caught myself again, I habitually talk to myself like I’m having a conversation or talking to an audience. I paused and stopped to audibly say- I forgot what I said, but it is a skill, and I seem to be very comfortable with talking to and with myself to an imaginary audience to feel like I’m having a conversation of sorts.
I feel like you missed a big part of what Lampshading can be used for: What it can say about a Character. I think about Epithet Erased, and Deadpool, and Community, and Rick and Morty, and any show where 4th wall breaks aren't a 1 time thing, they're just part of the fabric of the show. And even shows where 4th wall breaks aren't common, like Amphibia, lampshading can be a fun way to develop a new character. When Marcy was introduced, she expressed her glee at seeing Anne with the Plantars because she "Loves the found family trope" and regales everyone with her point of view since landing in Newtopia and playing the role of Ranger and stuff. Same thing anytime Abed gets excited at the chance to roleplay in the themed episodes of Community. And in Rick and Morty, we see this a lot with most of the characters hanging a lampshade and either being excited or being annoyed, and it clearly showing the characters current mindset and there view on the situation. I love these kinds of 4th wall breaks, they never pull me out of the story when they're done well, and can lead to pretty funny jokes. Also, watch Epithet Erased. You'd love how twee it is.
Riiiiiight. The Lampshade. The lampshade for Kuzco. The lampshade specifically intended to kill Kuzco. Kuzco's lampshade. That lampshade right? YES THAT LAMPSHADE.
Side note, when I saw Megamind in theaters, I recall the guy yelling "I love you Metro Man" coming out of only the back right speaker, exactly in the direction that Metro Man points. Just an extra layer of 4th-wall break.
While I agree that Lampshading can undercut the impact of an emotional scene, I also feel there are some instances that may be mislabeled as lampshading. In this video, the one that stood out to me most was the brief scene when Thor threw the bowling ball at the window. I think, rather than lampshading, had a twofold purpose; characterization and relatability. It's a small characterization, but it still demonstrates Thor's character pretty well. We see him making an attempt to convince Valkyrie to join his cause, stumbling in the middle, and then pushing on anyway. It's a demonstration of Thor's commitment to his goals, and his ability to roll with the punches. He's trying to demonstrate that he will be taking action regardless, and thus he is worth following. It's a relatable moment because we get to see that even an fifteen hundred year old, god of thunder, king of Asgard, mythical hero can mess up when he hasn't fully rehearsed what he intends to do. He didn't throw the ball hard enough. But instead of acknowledging the mistake and begrudging it or apologizing, he acts like it didn't happen and keeps moving. It happens to be seen as some slapstick comedy, but if you analyze it at all you can see that there's a lot more behind it than that. And I think there are a lot of moments in the MCU that, on the surface look like lampshading or comedy that undercuts the seriousness of a scene, but really aim to make the character in question a little more relatable to the audience and a little more characterized. Because seeing your heroes come to life on the big screen is one thing, but seeing them up there and also having moments when you can almost feel yourself in their shoes? A person, not an ideal, in the most unreal and bizarre situations? That can reach you on a different level. Of course, the MCU is DEFINITELY guilty of overusing comedy and lampshading, but this is why I think some of the criticism is undeserved.
I think you're reading a lot more into it than was intended, honestly. Which is fine (death of the author and all that), but it's equally valid NOT to see it that way. I'm as certain as I can possibly be that the intent was pure physical comedy to cut the tension, because Taika Waititi is allergic to drama. And I say this as a huge fan of What We Do in the Shadows.
In Halo: Reach, when you get attacked within five minutes of launching into space, Jorge says “Is there any place the Covenant isn’t?!” like he’s mad at the developers
@hweirdo Noted. As stated, I wasn't arguing one way or the other against the _Halo_ instance itself. Just pointing out that lampshading can simply be and usually is leaning on the fourth wall rather outright shattering it.
@Star maker 75 ...Leaning into the fourth wall is still "lampshading" though. The vast majority of lampshading *isn't* a character turning directly to the "camera" and outright addressing it, just them pointing out something in-universe that would normally be ignored as "weird" due to suspension of disbelief. (Whether this _Halo_ example counts I have no say in since I'm utterly indifferent to the series and never played it. You guys have sympathies about how gods awful that recent live-action series apparently was though.)
5:36 - 7:00 I gotta say, even outside of a writer or artist perspective, thos really speaks to me for my everyday life. I appreciate how you said it and basically adding it to my bookmarks to improve myself. Thank you Red :)
