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The Weird End of The War That Came Early

EmperorTigerstar
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It's time to review another Harry Turtledove series with Cody from the AlternateHistoryHub! This one hurt.
See Part 1 here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAVeK...
GET COOL MAP MERCH HERE: www.redbubble.com/people/EmpT...
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19 Eyl 2021

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EmperorTigerstar
EmperorTigerstar Aylar önce
Thanks for the patience! It's finally here! Part 1 is linked in the description and on AlternateHistoryHub's channel.
Prussian Army
Prussian Army Aylar önce
@Higamers2007 you my friend make no sense
Higamers2007
Higamers2007 Aylar önce
@Prussian Army the United States
Higamers2007
Higamers2007 Aylar önce
@Prussian Army no
Prussian Army
Prussian Army Aylar önce
@Higamers2007 Russia?
Higamers2007
Higamers2007 Aylar önce
That’s where I came from
Tiny Toybox Films
Tiny Toybox Films 7 gün önce
Someone had the contractual obligation to deliver six books to his publisher, the true goal of the series.
DignitasForTheWin
DignitasForTheWin 11 gün önce
these books barely have any substance in them
Anthony Bueno
Anthony Bueno 13 gün önce
It sounds more like rise of kingdom drama.😂 i’ve known people have done is in the game🤣
Llanfairpwllgwyngyllball
What would make the series 50x more interesting is that after the British coup, France refuses to switch and end up fighting the Brits
Rui Leite
Rui Leite 20 gün önce
Turtledove's Risk games must've been nuts
Beaver Jedi
Beaver Jedi 21 gün önce
This is just like, one of those incredibly weird Hoi4 games lmao
Lucas Harvey
Lucas Harvey 22 gün önce
Thanks for the video!
Wes Collier
Wes Collier 23 gün önce
How can you make world war 2 boring?!?!? Turtledove come on
Lemuel, The Aided One
Lemuel, The Aided One 24 gün önce
This video is unavailable
I existed.
I existed. 25 gün önce
I swear I can't stop laughing, this is legit a Hoi4 game in book form.
The justice genie
The justice genie 25 gün önce
im waiting for the part where haiti joined the axis because the dog of the national leader got assasinated
Joseph Quinn Swolin
Joseph Quinn Swolin 25 gün önce
Hmmm must be a teaser for hoi5
JuiceNewton
JuiceNewton 25 gün önce
You sound like a big fat guy. In real life are you?
I stand with ISRAEL 🇮🇱
Honestly I kinda wanna wish that America and the allies didn’t help the soviets and let them die then attack
Kiril Romanovic
Kiril Romanovic 26 gün önce
So are you saying that Turtledove got Hoi IV and now hes writing based on its AI?
Tiernan Wearen
Tiernan Wearen 26 gün önce
France and the UK leaving the alliance against the soviet Union makes no sense. Communism was the bogeyman of the west for over 20 years. And hears the chance to destroy communism once and for all.
Siz Zis
Siz Zis 26 gün önce
I sort of enjoyed the prose in the series, it certainly made the books less tedious, but they could have done away with most of the war action descriptions (most of which ends up sounding all the same no matter what stage of the war it is). And, perhaps my biggest gripe, maybe Turtledove could have kept the salient events, the ones that the volumes are named after, on-stage. I hate how a coup in UK is just mentioned in a pub discussion, and I don't even want to touch on the fact that Churchill getting run over and killed by a Bentley is revealed at the end of a very awkward passage on two teenagers (Jewish kids who are one of the POVs in the book) being sexually intimate with each other. Also, it's odd how covers seem to be made to get the reader's expectations up, except nothing of it is found in the story. It's as if the cover designer didn't even read the book's draft when making them. One of the medals used is a medal of honor for defending Leningrad, but to my knowledge the Germans didn't even go that far into Soviet territory. Another one has some D-Day like landing that doesn't happen in the Two Fronts volume. The last volume has the Eiffel Tower still standing, when it's mentioned since the first book that it had the top blown off (again, like any remotely exciting events in this series, off-stage) during the first German attempted invasion of France. With that said, it would be really interesting to imagine how the world would come out of it. - As said, UK and France switched sides two times. One thing to point out though is that in France's case they don't even have a coup toppling the previous pro-German government involved to justify it: they were literally fortifying the Maginot Line and preparing to strike Germany in the back while still allied with Germany, so the switch-around literally happened on a whim. This is mentioned explicitly in the book. Even if they come out as the "victors" side in the war, they would still be seen as sneaky and unreliable by the whole global community, which would perhaps make them half-pariah, and surely enough accelerate the fall of their colonial empires even harder than IRL. - At the end of the day, Germany is paradoxically enough going to be the nation that made itself look most respectable in the war. Even in terms of the Holocaust, be it because of their war alongside France and UK, or later because they were with too much on their hands, they never got around to oppressing the Jewish population anywhere as much as in our universe. There's a mention of the concentration camp of Dachau to house dissidents, as if it's common knowledge among civilians, but mass deportations and mass killings never happened. With all due respect, it's almost cute how the best the Nazis could come up with in this scenario is giving extra names to Jewish citizens to "differentiate" them from the other Germans ("Moses" for men, "Sarah" for women. Did anything like this ever happen IRL?) I'm afraid that for this reason in this post-WWII world, Nazism would only end up seen not as a genocidal ideology, but just as dumb short-fuse guys who got Germany into another unnecessary war. - On the other hand, Japan is probably going to be seen as the bigger moster in the war for the decades to come. One thing that isn't mentioned in either of the videos is that Japan tested their germ pathogens on captured Russians first, and captured Americans later. Rats infested with plague-carrying fleas were later released in Hawaii, but vaccinations were promptly carried out. While IRL the Unit 731 experiments remained mostly a (thorny) Asian affair between China and Japan, one can imagine how bad this would turn out to be since Russians and Americans were subjected to it, making word get out much easier in the West. - This world's WWII never had any watershed battle to bolster national spirit, be it a big defeat or a big victory. No Stalingrad, no Kursk, no Midway, no Battle of Britain, just a half-baked Barbarossa that stops at Smolensk at most. How does it affect patriotic mentality, that there is no battle to pin one's national pride to, would be another interesting subject to think about.
Warspite
Warspite 24 gün önce
I enjoy his works, but Turtledove has a fairly bad habit of telling and not showing major events. With regards to Germany, I get the feeling it's only a matter of time before war errupts again. The whole "stab in the back" myth that was prevalent after the first world war will probably be propagated further after losing a second war without conflict on German soi. Not to mention politically it seems that Germany will become either a dictatorship or junta, and the post-war tension between Germany and the Soviet Union. As for the Holocaust, historically the perspecution and killings ramped up after 1939 with the occupation of Poland. Because Nazi Germany never has access to the Jewish population that it did historically (from Poland, the Balkans and the USSR) the apparatus for industrialised killings isn't in place and so Jewish persecution is at a lower level than it would reach in reality. And yes, historically the Nazi German government required all Jews with "non-Jewish names" to add the last name of Israel or Sara (for men and women, respectively) The war against Japan will also be much more bloody than in our timeline. Not only because of Japan's use of bioweapons but also because the US doesn't pursue atomic weapons research. So either Japan will be invaded (much like the planned Operatiion Downfall) or the US will impose a blockade and starve Japan into surrender. I think there are watershed moments, it's just that Turtledove fails to mention them in more detail than in passing. For example the British and French stalling the German advance, or the Soviets doing the same at Smolensk. There's also the Japanese attack on the US Asiatic Fleet and their repulse of the first American counteroffensive. They might seem small due to how Turtledove depicts them, but I think historians looking back on these events will see these as high (or low) points of the war.
No One
No One 27 gün önce
Aka: *hoi4 cursed germany: the book*
Margarine YEETness
Margarine YEETness 27 gün önce
To the British who were bullying the Russians than they teleport over to North Africa to bully the Italians?
Siz Zis
Siz Zis 23 gün önce
Not quite, but then again neither that far from the truth. In the book British troops, who were fighting in the middle of alternate Barbarossa at the time, are let in by the Russians onto their side of the front (with apparently Germans firing random punitive shellings at them in the meantime). There the Brits are given transportations by the Russians and then loaded on ferry ships for what their new destinations are. Apparently Brits aren't remaining in Russia to fight _against_ the Germans. That also lead to another problem point, which is that it's never quite explained which way the Brits are regularly intervening in North Africa against Italians and Afrika Korps. In this scenario the Mediterranean looks like a more dangerous place for the British navy to go, overall. Nationalist Spain's Sanjurjo took over the Gibraltar strait earlier into the war, and since then Britain never mounted any operation to retake it. In fact, it's even said in one of the books that British ships have to "run the gauntlet" whenever going in or out through Gibraltar.
Walter Carvalho
Walter Carvalho 27 gün önce
The characters are really good in the middle
Max V
Max V 28 gün önce
More bad maps plz
tony lu
tony lu 28 gün önce
What was that last part about stalin beig the father?!
gfresh513
gfresh513 28 gün önce
Read the first two glad I stopped save from disappointment. Cheers for the review.
El Prez
El Prez 29 gün önce
Ah yes, Harry Turtledove. The father of alternative history and cursed Hearts of Iron game sessions at 3am
niddg viiut
niddg viiut 29 gün önce
Feels like a writer started with a simple yet interesting concept but had no guidelines but promised 6 books on it
C Stains
C Stains 29 gün önce
I seriously checked out on this series in the early part of book three and just wanted to know if that was ultimately the right call.... Seems like I made the right call.
THE ANGRY MARINE
THE ANGRY MARINE 29 gün önce
It's all Italy baby. Team switching galore
niddg viiut
niddg viiut 29 gün önce
of Tanya the Evil.
Justin Hammer
Justin Hammer Aylar önce
That's a lot of twisting history into pretzels just to let Germany end up better off after WWII.
wnnalis cioov
wnnalis cioov Aylar önce
Feels like a writer started with a simple yet interesting concept but had no guidelines but promised 6 books on it
tyler89557
tyler89557 Aylar önce
"So Germany just declared war on Czechoslovakia" "Let's get em!" "Hey but what about the Soviets?" "Alright, the Germans can wait." "Sike. we're gonna hit the Germans again" "This war is... pretty stagnant ain't it?" "Yeah, oh wait, Germany just got a coup. They're asking for peace." "Oh nice. So, are the Czechs being released" "Who?"
tyler89557
tyler89557 Aylar önce
@wnnalis cioov Luckily for me I didn't have to. Just a mere 30 minutes or so watching 2 videos is all I need.
wnnalis cioov
wnnalis cioov Aylar önce
Why would you commit to thousands of pages and I guess years of your life to tell an alternate history of WWII that’s this boring?
Hacienda
Hacienda Aylar önce
*"History of North America coming in September 2020."*
Ethan O. McBride
Ethan O. McBride Aylar önce
IMAGINE being an alternate history author who writes c h a r a c h t e r focused books 😵‍💫
Big J
Big J Aylar önce
This book series is just “WW2 but it’s way less interesting.”
Christian Wilson
Christian Wilson Aylar önce
The key to alternate history is to choose an outcome and make changes to achieve it. Or make a single change and write how things would play out.
TheSchultinator
TheSchultinator Aylar önce
Seems like the Big Switch got reversed probably because people decried it
Markus D
Markus D Aylar önce
youre gay
hoiy vinosa
hoiy vinosa Aylar önce
Feels like a writer started with a simple yet interesting concept but had no guidelines but promised 6 books on it
1EthanCC
1EthanCC Aylar önce
Publishers: "Alright, contractually you need to give us 6 books." Turtledove, already sweating nervously: "Uh, sure... yeah... I can draw this out for 6 books."
Jack der Hauptsturmführer
So, this depicts a timeline that the UK and France change team 2 times while Italy didn’t?
hoiy vinosa
hoiy vinosa Aylar önce
during the deception phase to explain to Germans why you're loitering there and not advancing to the eastern front, even with a contested Baltic. How many layers of comman
Onyx1916
Onyx1916 Aylar önce
So Turtledove wrote a six book series about a really weird HOI IV game?
Bahbi Barnett
Bahbi Barnett Aylar önce
I started an HoI4 game after watching both of these and WW2 did actually begin earlier. It was anything but a whim though. Let's just say Italy got aggressive.
Lewis Taylor
Lewis Taylor Aylar önce
I feel dumber having watched both parts of this...... ffs I am sooooooo glad I didn't actually read the books. edit: Thanks for that I guess..... now back to good alt history, The Saga of Tanya the Evil.
Jerky Murky
Jerky Murky Aylar önce
Wait... Montgomery dies? Thank god.
Bobby-Wan Kenobi
Bobby-Wan Kenobi Aylar önce
Honestly, I've had Hearts of Iron IV games more interesting, plausible and with more twists and shocking reveals than this.
Ben Glick
Ben Glick Aylar önce
Why would you commit to thousands of pages and I guess years of your life to tell an alternate history of WWII that’s this boring?
Beretta249
Beretta249 Aylar önce
So it's just a _bit_ of a whitewash of Nazi/Imperial Germany with the USSR and FDR being the actual greater evils.
Zephyr N/A
Zephyr N/A Aylar önce
The entire series of events just seems like a waste of time. Nobody really won or lost. Just people died and time was wasted writing 6 books.
Baltasar Jimenez
Baltasar Jimenez Aylar önce
Definitely one of his least interesting series; could have been 3 books easily if he just stopped using the same phrases to redescribe each character every chapter. Very phoned-in.
Liam !84488282
Liam !84488282 Aylar önce
*the Spanish civil war is still going on* Wow you really can't spell Spain without pain.
Daniel restrepo
Daniel restrepo Aylar önce
0:20 Wait WHO’s the father?!
N1GHTSTRIKER45
N1GHTSTRIKER45 Aylar önce
The story is high in german meth
MANTIS!!!
MANTIS!!! Aylar önce
boaring book
Tyrankoos
Tyrankoos Aylar önce
I know this would be way out of your wheelhouse but could you do a war map progression video on the Star Trek deep space 9 dominion war ?
Emyr Derfel
Emyr Derfel Aylar önce
The only way I see a double-switch happening is as a long-game strategy to get armies and spies safely into Germany and have them properly fed and supplied with proper local recon before doing the second switch and beheading the Nazi central, regional and local command structures in one distributed coordinated operation. Would be tough during the deception phase to explain to Germans why you're loitering there and not advancing to the eastern front, even with a contested Baltic. How many layers of command to you need to eliminate to neutralise the risk of new leaders emerging? How much of the force is needed to hold Germany versus protecting it from the SS and Wehrmacht rushing home?
Jon Baxter
Jon Baxter Aylar önce
Turtledove is great and a master at this sort of stuff
DaddyByak400
DaddyByak400 Aylar önce
It gave you mixed feelings, but it gave me a stroke
Wojak-Sensei
Wojak-Sensei Aylar önce
As a Filipino, I feel so attacked by the Nihonggo weebs in these books.
foopyu nooui
foopyu nooui Aylar önce
detail. It’s very exciting storytelling.
lior yunfh
lior yunfh Aylar önce
is recording with a cardboard box on his head?
Crispy Diesel
Crispy Diesel Aylar önce
TLDR: Britain is the old Italy, France is also old Italy, Germany eventually becomes old Italy, Italy is about to become Italy. The US has quite rightly decided that Europe is too Italian to understand and has decided to just fight an enemy that makes sense. Japan is just a slightly better Japan (in terms of gains if not morality). And the USSR is the same if slightly less ambitious.
Crispy Diesel
Crispy Diesel Aylar önce
@lior yunfh Good question. I don't know, I was just summarising the summary. I guess given the level of side-changing and general madness apparently displayed, Finland decided to invade Norway before being stopped by crack paratroopers from Lichtenstein.
lior yunfh
lior yunfh Aylar önce
Does this mean that Finland actually stays out of the war?
Daniel Hughes
Daniel Hughes Aylar önce
This games no sense
Walter K
Walter K Aylar önce
Yo does Harry Turtledove just play HoI4 and then write down his games?
foopyu nooui
foopyu nooui Aylar önce
north portion of Japan. That is if the Japanese aren't willing to agree to a peaceful end to the war.
Kornet
Kornet Aylar önce
Guess the series was just writing practice for everyone... Good job everybody!
CantusTropus
CantusTropus Aylar önce
"What was the point of having the big switch if it ended up not mattering at all?" - to sell more books, obviously.
Roketsune, Obscenely Adorable Perturber-in-Chief
FURRY! Also, your video was okay, but it lacked profanity. Profanity is great. Also, do you sympathize especially strongly with Krebs from the movie Downfall? I imagine you as a feline version of Krebs.
Александр Исайкин
What about your video about North America?
tomtomed1
tomtomed1 Aylar önce
How cheeky is it to put "the master of alternative history" on your own book
Peter Smythe
Peter Smythe Aylar önce
Far right dictatorships in the east is basically what you had during the interwar period. The only one even pretending to be remotely democratic was Finland and even then they did a pretty poor job of it. Most of the others were either monarchies, regencies, or some other right wing undemocratic government. Hungary was basically fascist before the nazis got involved. Poland was a right wing dictatorship even as it was being invaded by the nazis. etc. The aftermath of WW1 created a lot of right wing dictatorships in small to medium sized eastern European states, many of which were recently formed.
Peter Smythe
Peter Smythe Aylar önce
"Your wife is pregnant and Stalin is the father." *"WAIT... STALIN IS CHEATING ON ME? WITH THAT WOMAN?!"*
dueeh nyyu
dueeh nyyu Aylar önce
Feels like a writer started with a simple yet interesting concept but had no guidelines but promised 6 books on it
UnicornStalkR Gaming
Wait wait Where tf Italy go
fireraider98
fireraider98 Aylar önce
Cody is better, maybe its the voice idk
dueeh nyyu
dueeh nyyu Aylar önce
This novel series was rather realistic until the third book and it lost me.
Taylor Casale
Taylor Casale Aylar önce
I’m starting to think this guy is a furry
Fredfredbug4
Fredfredbug4 Aylar önce
Your channel is cool but you really need to invest in a better microphone.
Ryan
Ryan Aylar önce
Without nuclear weapons being used against the Japanese, that war will most likely end in Operation Downfall taking place and the possibility that the Soviets will invade the north portion of Japan. That is if the Japanese aren't willing to agree to a peaceful end to the war.
seneca983
seneca983 Aylar önce
Does this mean that Finland actually stays out of the war?
Mr. Dirt
Mr. Dirt Aylar önce
Can I also have the WW2 map as a face mask?
TheMilitantHorse
TheMilitantHorse Aylar önce
"Herr Goering, your wife is pregnant, and Stalin is the father!" I haven't felt whiplash like that in ages...
yaliso gioouy
yaliso gioouy Aylar önce
That awkward moment when the plot from Nazi Zombies makes more sense.
Hey, Taxi!
Hey, Taxi! Aylar önce
Now this is a wild early war strat by the german player, some real meta MP HOI4 strats
Ed
Ed Aylar önce
I read 20 or 30 Turtledove books before I couldn't take it anymore! 🙄
FireIron TheSecond
FireIron TheSecond Aylar önce
I read like 10 🤣
yaliso gioouy
yaliso gioouy Aylar önce
I don't see the Spanish republic leaning to communist that easily. You must take into account that the Popular Front was an uneasy alliance of left wing parties to face fascism
Metrack
Metrack Aylar önce
This is like if 2/4 of the Allies just saw a ton of of "Italy switching sides" memes and both said "yeah, let's do that, but even *more* ". But the most unrealistic part, is Germany giving up, and somehow UK and France just say "Eh. Fine, keep your gains, but DON'T do it again"
Azrael
Azrael Aylar önce
He really writes "The Master of Alternate History" on his books? Oh my... Honestly, if it is so easy to earn money with writing "alt history" (for a reason in quotation marks) books, I pursue the wrong career!
Siz Zis
Siz Zis 26 gün önce
That's a newspaper quote (from USA Today?) that has been on his books ever since the Southern Victory series if not even earlier. It keeps getting reused on the cover of every book he writes, regardless of how stellar it is, even though it's not even a review for that book.
Emyr Derfel
Emyr Derfel Aylar önce
His publisher writes that and he ain't complaining.
DawnPraiser
DawnPraiser Aylar önce
tigerstar, you need a better mic :p
Klishar122
Klishar122 Aylar önce
Yeah, that’s pretty weird. We definitely wouldn’t have so much media based on WW2 if it had gone down that way.
Qetiogus Liriope
Qetiogus Liriope Aylar önce
Wait. Tigerstar? As in from the Warrior Cats books?
Procyon
Procyon Aylar önce
Yes
WannabeHistorian692
This novel series was rather realistic until the third book and it lost me.
GarkKahn
GarkKahn Aylar önce
Is there some scenario with the soviets joining the axis against capitalism? It may be something a little more fresh than this at least
Procyon
Procyon Aylar önce
Why would the Soviets join the Axis? They were explicitly anti-communist, and Hitler had made his anti-Slavic views quite clear.
Hailfire97
Hailfire97 Aylar önce
Slight note: I don't think Germany got Slovakia. I know they annexed Czech lands, but the Slovaks were a proto-puppet, like Poland. I don't think Germany got those.
Eliezer3838
Eliezer3838 Aylar önce
This gives me hoi4 vibes
Christian Holt
Christian Holt Aylar önce
Quick Alternate history idea: The Germans defeated the French Officially on June 25th, 1940. The British would not bomb the French Fleet in Algeria until July 3rd, 1940. In the real world the French Admiral Francois Darlarn refused to hand over the French Fleet to the Germans. What if, the Kriegsmarine had managed to smuggle or attempt a break out of the Mediterranean with the French Fleet through the straight of Gibraltar, or even bolting to the Suez Canal. It should be noted the British were blockading the straight of Gibraltar at the time, and obviously the Suez Canal was under British Control. But, what would have happened if the breakout took place, rather than the British Attack on Mers-el-Kébir. And especially, what would have happened if they successfully got the majority of the fleet out. How would the war have changed with a significant boost to the German Kriegsmarine?
nick loughren
nick loughren Aylar önce
The end of the alien invasion series was so boring I haven’t finished them humans visit home and both think the same thing only the Rec gets there first ….and it becomes a snooze fest
Filth
Filth Aylar önce
This is just HOI4 the book
Trygve Plaustrum
Trygve Plaustrum Aylar önce
Hey, Turtledove's Great Britain: *You can't just take back your declaration of war... TWICE!*
Julian Diaz
Julian Diaz Aylar önce
I wish I could get into these videos but the voice audio is just no good to me
Ian Eons
Ian Eons Aylar önce
36 on trending!
Igor Okina Mujika
Igor Okina Mujika Aylar önce
I don't see the Spanish republic leaning to communist that easily. You must take into account that the Popular Front was an uneasy alliance of left wing parties to face fascism. Most of them weren't communists and they only accepted USSR aid because it was the only choice due to the whole "non intervention" bullshit. Besides, the basque government was ruled by a right wing party that would never support a communist Spain. So I don't see Spain becoming communist after the war without a coup or another civil war.
Aracoixo
Aracoixo Aylar önce
Genius 🤯
Janusz Tracz Junior
LEARN. EDITING. VIDEOS.
Sonraki
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