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I would really like a Real Stannis, Real Jon Snow, Real Cersi, and Real Daenerys videos comparing how the show changes characters versus how they are portrayed in the books. You could probably do this with many other characters but the four I have mentioned seem the farthest away from their book counterparts.
i think film jon is good until the books are over, until season 5 his storyline in season 5 is one of the few good stories in season 5 with the kinglanding story
this actually explains a lot that happened in the show to me. the more the Show diverged from the Novels, the Worse that these characters became. because then the writers had to come up with character-development on their OWN to show what the Show-Version of Tyrion was becoming vs the Novel-Version... and that's when everyone realized the Show-Writers simply could not write... it definitely explains the turning-point of Tyrion better to me, after he kills Tywin. never read the novels and was disappointed at how he became so useless and brooding after that moment in the show. but it makes sense now. his character was ACTUALLY fated to become a total bastard who wished to watch the world burn... but the Show Directors wanted to to a total 180 from that fate because they had built such a beloved tragic-hero character already with Dinklage's superb acting because TV ratings. so they literally had to try and re-do his character from scratch at that point and simply couldnt match up to the writing of an actual book author in terms of character-development
@Rudolf Horváth The fact that they were rushing towards the end certainly didn’t help. They cut out SO much from the books it’s almost fascinating. I mean look what they did to Euron!
Yeah, it's not just Tyrion. Once they started to ran out of the books they were somewhat forced to make changes to simplify the plot. In S5 and S6 they butchered multiple storylines such as Stannis and North, Dorne; and the Tyrells and High Sparrow to keep the focus on 'main' characters. They also had to quickly change Jon and Daenerys in order to bring them into 'main' conflict. All of this would be fine if it weren't done with complete disregard for the characters themselves. S7 and S8 were just a poor attempt to make sense out of the bad decisions made before and a huge fan service.
You hit the mail right in the head. Tv shows always turn the bad guys into a livable hero like you said because of the great acting as well as trying to please the audience. I call it the Fonzy effect.
@AW The truth is often in the middle yes. It’s like in middle school when a slight tooth gap or being a little overweight was blown into being a freak of nature. Most nobles of the time were likely spoiled (wo)man-children, so it’s likely they never outgrew their bullying nature, especially over something like a slight hunch.
From what I've read (research based on accounts and portraits from his period, and then of course his remains), I think that the most likely version is that he had _some_ small but visible disfigurement which was later widely exaggerated by his victorious opponents as a terrible hunch for propaganda reasons. Most likely the truth, as always, lies somewhere between "a deformed monster" and "100% healthy".
@Stinger Johnny Also, scoliosis is not a cause of being a hunchback (that's kyphosis), and it was conclued that despite how dramatic it looked it could be concealed by clothing.
@Stinger Johnny depends on how pervasive the generational 'incest' was. While I've found no relation between Richard III's paternal great grandparents, his parents were something like second cousins once removed while his paternal grandparents were first cousins twice removed.
I really wanted to see "evil" tyrion. It would have really given dinklage something to chew on. After that trial scene I was waiting with so much anticipation to see this great actor givin a complex storyline that would challenge the audience that loved him, and then they threw it away and gave him nothing but stupidity 😔
@Scott's Precious Little Account ya and the shitty thing is, that still could have worked. If they really wanted to keep him wholesome, sympathetic, dinklage tyrion, they still could have and made ut work. But instead they just made him stupid 😔
They just gave in to the early interpretation as the downtrodden underdog. They broke the big turn when Jaime frees him from the cell. So he stayed as the Dinklage version without the planning. That’s when things really went off the rails.
Does Tyrion ever turn evil in the books, though? Being capable of evil/committing a debatably evil deed =/= becoming/being evil. Tyrion never falls so low morally as to be put in the same league as other unequivocally evil characters in the books.
I feel so bad for Peter Dinklage. As far as I can tell, he's a smart guy, it must have pained him to portray Tyrion's descent into stupidity after season 4.
@Tyler Wood They were going against Breaking Bad season 5. They ended that show basically perfectly. No fucking way they would have won that year against Aaron and Bryan.
@ᚢᛁᚴᛁᚾᚴ ᚴᚢᛋᛏᛅᚢᛋᛋᚬᚾ The criteria for the best acting are best satisfied when the actor isn't acting. Besides, it can't be all that boring to play out your fantasies in public protected only by a thin pretense of pretending. What a thrill it must be for the perverts.
"They wanted the pretty white people to ride off into the sunset together," he told The New York Times. "By the way, it's fiction. There's dragons in it. Move on." it's probably not much of a loss for him.
@DeAndre Woods "It did when the dead were being raised and Tyrion had the idea to hide in the tombs Peter thought that was stupid writing and against who Tyrion is" Can you link to that article or video i would love to see it. I thought GOT was (beep) after season 4-5 but i never knew the actors were so displeased, this is the first time hearing about it and i only got to this video because my cat jumped on the keyboard 😂😂
Why? It's called acting, actors love playing every different personas. The most boring thing for an actor is to act like him/herself because it becomes less an act then.
@Hostile At Heart he isn't a villain. He is an overall good man who has done terrible things. Better than most ASOIAF characters for sure. And the best story telling wise.
the problem Tyrion has at the trial is that NOT ONLY does he have his enemies and Cersei's minions lying on him. He also has honorable men who tell the truth that yes 1) Tyrion struck Joffrey 2) Tyrion argued with the king 3) Tyrion threatened the king. Balon Swann and Garlan Tyrell don't lie at the trial, what they say is the truth. A very inconvenient truth for Tyrion but the truth.
i'd also like to add that the moment he's sentenced to death, is when he lost the thing that gives him power, his status as a nobleman. Sure, he's witty, but wit doesn't matter if people don't care what you say from the jump.
One note: I truly don’t believe Tywin ordered the death of Elia. The children yes, but he was too politically savvy to make an enemy of the Dornish because of a slight they had nothing to do with. He even explains to Tyrion that the reason Gregor killed her was because he didn’t tell him not to. At the time Gregor was still a teenager and it’s believable that Tywin underestimated his brutality.
Elia got what Cersei was supposed to have, so honestly I think he might have really done it while deciding that he could blame it on Gregor if the Dornish ended up wanting retribution - like Tyrion, Tywin was fond of revenge. Mind you Elia's kids were Doran and Oberyn's nephew and niece, so as to what was politically savvy even killing them could anger the Dornish, especially if Elia was supposed to be sent back to Dorne after that. And really, Tywin has a habbit of surrounding himself with complete freaks who do his bidding violently.
Tywin actually says as much to Tyrion in the books. He didn’t order Gregor Clegane kill Elia, but he also didn’t order him to spare her, indeed he doubted that he even mentioned Elia at all. Elia slipped his mind because he was more concerned about the arrival of Ned Stark and the threat that Aerys might kill Jaime. He regards Elia’s death as ‘sheer folly’ and was disgusted by the rape. He explained that he didn’t fully realize what kind of beast Gregor was at the time.
I dunno, Tywin is a sadistic son of a bitch and there’s a theme of mothers going nuts after the death of their kids so maybe he was paranoid she would spearhead a revenge scheme
@WisdomSeeker Handicapped people are under no obligation to only date people with the exact same handicap. But if you specifically do not want to date handicapped people you _have_ lost the right to ever be angry at able-bodied people for rejecting you for your handicap (Same for skincolor or weight or financial status: if you only want to date certain people than you cannot complain when those attractive people apply the same rules on you)
@Dumm-E Dumders >hate his own kind Give me a single line of text from the books that implies even remotely that he "hates" his own kind because of prejudice. A single line. How do you misinterpret his empathy for the sufferring dwarfs undergo in that universe as "hate" when GRRM has written multiple examples of him lamenting the sufferring his "kind" undergo? >immediately discounts the dwarfs brought into make a mockery of him as innocent and even decides to pay them bags of silver and advice them to move far away from KL to avoid any harm coming their way >accepts the fact that dwarfs are mistreated horrendously in their kingdom and the only reason he's even alive is because of his name >his literal ENTIRE interaction with Penny Yeah I can totally see how he "hates" his own "kind". Also you're straight up calling him non human by referring to people like him as a separate "kind", dwarfs are not some seperate LOTR like race in ASOIAF, he's still human and his "kind" would literally be humans. Are you dwarfophobic or something?
@witch, please >Tyrion is an entitled incel Lmaooooo now I've seen everything. There is literally no way any sane person who's actually read the books can come to this conclusion given the context of how he's treated Sansa, Shae, his feelings and extreme guilt for Tysha and his interactions with Penny, unless they're straight up mentally ill or governed by extreme bias that is. People will just throw out random buzzwords without putting a lick of thought into what they're actually implying. GOT's popularity has been disastrous for ASOIAF's fanbase.
@samiam2088 I don't think its dense that he's not interested in another dwarf. Its much deeper than that. He sees himself in other dwarfs which warrant anger and shame and all other feelings of inadequacy in his insecurities. I believe he just doesn't want to be reminded of those feelings every day when she looks at her. He's reminded enough as it is of his short comings as an imp or monster as he's described. I think the rejection is much deeper in trauma
@CynicalFinch Thanks for that mate. I get what you mean - i do recall in the show Tyrion going and unchaining the dragons therefore it kind of being hinted at - but i think that was as far as it went and it was only for die-hards to sort of catch on to that hint. It's just so frustrating that the last couple of seasons were spoilt for us. I hope the up and coming HOTD is as good as it promises to be.
Tywin was by any account a Golden Lion. In truth I feel he would be the most qualified person to sit the iron throne. Intelligent, experienced, wise, committed, in many respects just, respected and feared, knows the power players, can pull a crushed opponent back up if they submit. Now Tywin has already shown contempt for Tyrion on many things, whores especially. However to me this is about Tyrions public embrace of them as well as getting publicly drunk with people beneath his station. Both represent a slight on the Reputation of House Lannister. As for lust Tywin's wife died decades prior to the start of the books. No where does it say Tywin came celibate. Shae proves that. No one knew she was with Tywin now because his cover up is that good. It is likely he built the tunnel from the Hands Tower to a brothel. As for spite his alliance with the Reach, an initial enemy threatening the rule and lives of his children and grandchildren, shows pragmatism being more important than spite. As for shame you will need to provide an example. To me Tywin would have been the best person to rule this particular society.
@DH1985 The writers of HBO series (forgot their names) did in fact *_start_* to play it out, but they just stopped bothering to care after they got their Disney contract & rushed their way to the finish line. For example, there's _a reason_ that both in the show & the books, Tyrion had _no issues_ dealing with any of Daenerys' dragons. In fact, it's exactly the same reason that John Snow had no issues with the dragons, even at the very end when John is holding Daenerys is his arms: _The dragons can smell Targaryen blood, effectively making their presence the ultimate litmus test for whether or not someone is Targaryen._ In the books, when Daenerys went missing, the only person that was able to feed her dragons, _with out actually becoming dragon food themselves,_ *was Tyrion.* There's even a character who believed that he was Targaryen because his parents raised him to believe that such was the case, however his parents lied to him his whole life & he actually didn't have an ounce of Targaryen blood in his body. He tries to befriend one of Daenerys' dragons in secret, only to end up as a scrumptious burnt midnight snack kebob for the Dragon. The dragons can't eat a Targaryen since it is the Targaryen bloodline that rules them & gives them life in the first place.
The irony is Tywin constantly publicly humiliating Tyrion contributes to people laughing at him. If Tywin had supported him, shown him proudly and given him power, set his wrath on people that belittled Tyrion, people probably wouldnt have dared laugh
@Karl Glenn He was starting to become less good in season 4 but then the shorunners just stopped caring in the later seasons. His speech at his trial and then killing Shae and Tywin, while justified, was pretty dark
I feel the show version would have been better if he was consumed by hate after he kills Tywin. And he only went to Dany to get his revenge on his family. Maybe if they wanted they could redeem him when he sees how his hatred got the people of King’s Landing killed and decides to redeem himself when he helps defeat the Night King. When Bean becomes king, He sends Tyrion to the Night’s Watch to help with the library or he could be sent to look for his wife without his tongue (an impossible task).
I kept waiting for his redemption arc in this video, but halfway through it didn't come, and maybe it won't, he's written to a wall it seems. While I agree that the Tyrion in the show is likeable, he seems written too pristine too, like too "good" to be interesting.
I read the books and I never saw Tyrion as a villain till this video and now I see that he is a actually a villain. I think I related to him a lot so like him I saw his actions as he did. That's why these characters and books are so good because the characters are all so human and flawed
Now that I think about it, it would’ve been so cool to see his character 180 and become the thing he hated, his father. The idea of watching a dwarf slowly have the power and authority of Tywin sounds so good
Reminds me of Walter White in breaking bad. The story makes you empathize with him enough to excuse his wrong doings, and then gradually his ego and darkness grows and grows until he snaps. Walter snapped in the crawl space and Tyrion snapped at the trial. And like Walter, we still have enough empathy for Tyrion’s darkest, straight up fucked moments. His actions are nowhere excused but we still can’t help but root for his well-being. But there’ll be a moment, I hope, just like in BB, when the reader realizes they’ve backed the wrong horse and Tyrion really is the villain. I felt it in BB and it’s gut punching. Like the morality meter in my brain that determines whether I can or should empathize with someone had a full stop “HOOOOOOLD UP FUCK FUCK.” Like the reigns of the judgment train or whatever u wanna call it tugged the fuck out and were like “woahhhhhh wait oh shit this guys actually evil back up back up“ lol I’ve only read the first book but just like if you’ve only seen the first season of breaking bad, you prolly can’t imagine how a character like Walter or Tyrion can become the “bad guy.” But they do and u totally see how as they gain power and their ego comes out. Seeing the whole video, I’m convinced this’ll be another tragic Walter white story. I totally see Tyrion just continually getting more powerful and darker and lost in the vengeance sauce. And unlike Daenerys in the show, you totally GET how it happened. How someone like Tyrion breaks bad.
@GoldenDovah Daenaerys wasn't going to be the good guy. She's a Targaryen, she's doomed to slowly descend into madness. It starts with burning the sheep witch, then escalates into destroying Slaver's Bay, but then as time goes on she continues to take drastic actions for good reasons until suddenly destroying King's Landing sounds perfectly reasonable.
Pretty down on Tyrion dude. You take all the negative things and amplify them for drama. He is just a complex broken person both light and dark just like all the characters in these books. He just happens to be at his lowest low when we see him last in the books.
I always felt like having a powerful “T” name was a particular honor in the Lannister family. So the fact that Tyrion was given a coveted name and turned out to be an abomination in Tywin’s eyes makes it all the more unbearable for him.
I worked with Tywin Lannister (Charles Dance) on a couple of films, he was a gentleman and a marvellous actor to watch on set. Humble and friendly, a real pleasure to work with.
@Crowbars2 that Daenerys went mad would not exclude her from being Azor Shai. It would expand her empathy for the fallibility of humanity. Much as having died and returned to life would not exclude one from being a symbol of eternal life of the soul. She had made a credible start by returning slaves to freedom.
I think they chose to keep tyrion a good person because he was such a popular character, it might not have even been there shoice and higher ups at HBO made them do it.
Thank you for your commentary on Tywin. The show version just never sat right with me and I think you summed up most of it quite well. Tywin is full of absolute shit and is not the machiavelian God the show seemed dead set on portraying him as.
I will never understand why everyone falls in love with Tywin while hating on Walder Frey and Roose Bolton. I mean, the latters only committed one red wedding. Tywin did this like 4-5 times.
This is a great analysis that makes me want to read the books again, even knowing that we’re never going to see the conclusion to any of these stories, and makes me realize how many wasted opportunities the television adaptation left on the table.
@Concept same thing would’ve happened only with a fraction of the audience. No idea why people think making something animated will fix all the problems
I actually don’t mind Tyrion’s change after season 4 because to me after he was betrayed and killed Tywin, if he would’ve been the same guy it would to me had felt like stale development, I think he had officially gotten to the point where he didn’t care and just wanted the world to have leaders that weren’t like Joffrey, cerci and Tywin because he came to despise them and ultimately was going to be killed for a crime he didn’t commit. I just wish after season 4 he would’ve kept his sense of great strategist
He always hated his family and the intrigues of the game of thrones. He did not have a change of heart when he fled after his trial. He is not going after Danny in order to instill some good in the world. He's out of options and all he can do is seek refuge with someone he believes to have the power to exert revenge on his foes. Be they innocent or otherwise. The development could've been stellar if they had given Tyrion the screen time to struggle with his past. There could've been many more seasons than just 8, nothing stale about a character coming to grips with a new reality.
Your videos always make me remember why I loved reading the books. There’s so much going on and so many possibilities. Martin does a pretty good job of making people shades of grey and I love that this video really explores that and where that journey could take Tyrion.
When you read the books your drip fed all this intrigue and its hard to take the account of one characters story and really analyze it while your going from POV to POV. But with a video essay like this you really get to see the fucking remarkable web of trauma, emotions, politics, and relationships that Martin has created in his books for just one group of characters. It all feels real, every one of the Lannister's does fucked up things for real reasons connecting back to their childhoods, fears, and desires. I know I don't have to sing the praises here but it's just impressive when put into this format. Really nice video.
If you've already read the books and want to re-read them and absorb the themes better, i'd recommend re-reading through each character POV one at a time, I find it's much easier to keep track of characters and themes that way. Dany's chapters in Dance are especially better this way because you won't forget who all the minor characters are in between each chapter, at least that's how I felt.
I always saw Jaime and Tyrions arcs in the books to sort of be opposites. Jaime starts off as a despicable bastard, and is humbled into the honorable and noble man and knight in shining armor, and Tyrion goes from the awesome and kind hearted but definitely flawed man, to the very monster the people viewed him as.
This actually made me realize something about Lord Tywin. He isn’t really an intelligent lord because he can’t visualize consequences coming out of his own actions. It’s like he can see himself doing anything wrong, not in a moral sense but in a political one. Turning his children against each other practically from birth, torturing one son mentally while using the other two like pawns. It’s hard to imagine he cares about them in any way other than political. Consider one of his most devious actions, the Red Wedding, that was more Robb’s mistake than Tywin’s cleverness. Roose Bolton was always opportunistic concerning the Starks and Walder Frey couldn’t be trusted as an ally. But Walder was kept in line by the promise that his grandson would not only be born into one of the strongest houses in Westeros but also as a prince. When Robb screwed that up that is what allowed Tywin to conspire with the lords Bolton and Frey to perform the Red Wedding. If Robb never screwed up what would Tywin have done? Robb was WINNING, even having the Mountain on the run and Amory Lorch killed. It’s always prudent to capitalize in your enemies mistakes but horrible to not notice your own.
@MR GAMES Well with Jaime it was an ambush. He wasn't expecting a battle in the first place. And even then getting your sword stuck in an opponent isn't all that common.
Even Robb wasn't winning it was either luck or Grrm screwing The story to make robb stark win's his battles. in His first battle ( the whispering wood ) it was luck Who Made jaime the third BEST knight in asoiaf randomly mislaid his sword in someone so he can't kill robb stark that was so funny for me i mean he can't even get a random sword from his soldiers and continue the battle ??. Then robb sneak's to golden tooth And his wolf use's "Some random magic Wolf powers" so the Lannisters don't recognize him and a lot more hilarious battles. The point is robb stark won most of his battles by luck
I Feel like Peter Dinklash really did understood Tyrion's negative side and his darkness himself, despite the show "lighting things down" , his acting still gave me the impression that he wasn't a complete victim with no complex lanyster darkness of his own, and that despite everything, we'd see Tyrion further decent and/or be more conflicted after he killed his father and was essentially forced to go nowhere but Dany.
@Willie5000 i get that, but i felt he still had that touch of dark Tyrion that festers more as the story progresses. I didn't get the impression that he wasn't aware of Tyrion's complexity and just played him as a likable charismatic black sheeo underdog.(which _is_ what he amounted later on, and that was due to D and D and basically all what you just said.)
It really comes down to the fact that Peter Dinkelage was too damn likeable, and Tyrion's humor was so endearing to audiences that the show writers couldn't help but subconsciously portray Show Tyrion in a more positive light...
Love this character in both ways, but i wish we saw this version of story in series. Downfall of someone potentially good and even him achieving all his goals isn't a common thing in popular literature, actually. It would be nice to see his story with all the darkness and inevitable doom he brings with his wits and cunning.
I personally took a lot of tyrions most aggressive and viscous threats as dark, exaggerated humour, partly to emphasise where his loyalties lie, rather than seriously wanting to kill everyone. I felt he was just a bit of an emo at that bit of the story, although he obviously does some terrible things at that time
I like the idea of Tyrion's lineage continuing to be a question mark and not fully revealed And that he gets to ride a dragon too - at least once. I also prefer the idea of Euron getting a real ice dragon instead of the undead Viserion. It would be great to see all 3 of Dany's dragons getting to have a rider and then for an ice dragon to show up as well, ridden by the Lord of the Others, a very changed Euron Greyjoy. One more thing: Tywin is more like Tytos than Tywin realizes, and Tyrion is more like Tywin than Tywin wants to admit.
The show just made daenarys a villain without much justification. The books have perfectly set tyrion up to be the devil on her shoulder that will make her do terrible things that she will realise to late
This was a great deep dive into the differences between Tyrion in show and book. I really did like Peter Dinklage’s portrayal but season 6-8 D&D butchered his development tremendously. Here’s hoping we get Winds of Winter soon 🤞 Please do this for other characters!!! Great content as always. Cheers.
Would love to see this as a new series The Real characters of the books. In this you've perfectly outlined how the show (though not entirely through faults of its own) took the broad narrative of Martin's final books but completely and utterly failed (again completely intentionally) to vet and provide the context and background for WHY these things happened.
You are an exceptional story teller, listening to your videos are so entertaining and you made me see things I completely overlooked from reading books.
Tyrion in the books really resonated with me. I was living in a pit of physical and emotional abuse and lots of manipulation with my "family". I guess they always were like that, just that the trauma they experienced as war-refugees from Iraq made them unable to control their sadistic nature. Instead of me and my siblings banding together to oppose them, we instead went on a much more shamefull and pathetic route. My "parents" treatment of me when they found out i was both non-religious and bisexual was much like Tyrions treatment for being a dwarf. The way my big sister coped with their narcissism is becoming much like them in an effort to seek their approval, being against their very fundamental and conservative islamic thinking when they werent in the room and then blindly agreeing and bullying me with them when they were, purely out of spite for me, much like Cercei. I let the same happen to me and that made me treat my little brother in a way i still regret to this day. The only reason he isnt a bad person is because he didnt have anyone in the hierarchy of narcissistic evil in our house to pass on his resentment to. Tywin has sex with whores even though he claims to be fiercely against it, considering it shamefull and tainting their status, just like how i found a pack of condoms and lube right next to my "parents" Koran in their bedroom drawer, despite them humiliating me time and time again about how pleasures of the flesh that are not for reproductive purposes are sinfull and lowly. I could go on even longer about the similiarities i've spotted between the Lannister House and my "family", but i'll conclude with saying that just how you described Tywin, the pigs i grew up with used me as a punching-bag to funnel all their insecurities and self-hate on, treating me openly just like how they treat themselves internally. The only relief i have except for finally living at peace with myself, is that i now know exactly how to raise my future children to be the healthiest and happiest people in the world, because i now know what not to do, and also that those pigs now have to face their issues when they don't have anyone in the house to funnel them into, unless they god forbid are now targeting my little brother instead. When i finally moved out at the age of 18 and started taking care of myself, i had alot of resentment and hate for the people i grew up with, wishing them the worst and most painfull life i could imagine. Only difference between me and Tyrion is that the hate he let turn him into a rotten human being, i soon abandoned about a year or two after living on my own and trying to find my purpose in life. However, when i read the books and look at the course Tyrion is taking, i don't consider him evil, i more feel pity and dissapointment in him for letting sad insecure degenerate excuses for human beings still hold his mind and soul in shackles when he should just move on and realise that their inbred existence (coincidentally my "father" is also inbred through both his parents being first cousins) is not worth a single second of consideration. Also much like Tyrion being hand of the king/queen, im pursuing a career-education as Paralegal for the Swedish court of law. Still waiting for an answer regarding wether im accepted in or not. Wish me luck!
17:32 "Power reside where men believe it reside. It's a trick, a shadow on the wall" and Tyrion's power is nothing more than illusion, a big shadow created by his mind so he can feel delighted and better with himself (and the best manipulators move in silence and try not to create enemies). He's not at all concerned with reality, if things are actually how he believes, he's more concerned with how he feels and believing what he enjoys and makes him confortable. An universal and natural human flaw (but that CAN be overcome). It's insane how ruinous this negation of reality is for him; this mirrors real life really well.
I totally forgot Strong Belwas even existed because of how long it’s been since I read the book so I actually laughed out loud at that part of the video
I like to imagine that Shae really just was intimidated by Cersei and Tywin in order to be used against Tyrion, thereby making Shae really just an unfortunate soul lost in a Lannister Blood Feud
I have wondered whether Shae was some kind of highborn girl whose family fell into ruin. Wasn't she from Essos? One of those cities where they train beautiful girls to become high class whores. She knew her way around a bed and through a man's head. She had a chance with Tyrion to gain status she either once had, or always felt she deserved, and it led to her death.
Honestly I'd really love a "The Real Stannis Baratheon" video, because there's still a lot of people who only watched the show and didn't read the books so they're missing out the great character that is Stannis
Stannis will WIN the battle of Winterfell. He definitely will not ride out in an open field to be butchered on a nice sunny fall day in the North. Dumb and dumber made him look like a moron, talking of a seige with like a few hundred guys. Gods I hate D&D, had I been just a few years younger I'd he taken out my war hammer and smashed down the doors to HBO studios looking for the dragon groupies Weiss and Benioff for the mess of the story they made!
I would Like Tyrion more if the Mad king is his real dad, And would love him even more if he was the Third Dragon Rider as a Targaryen, It'd piss me off if his dragon were killed, That'd be shit if that happened and I wouldn't respect it.
@The Film Advocate after a while, endless death breeds apathy to it. One or two happy endings act as a nice palate cleanser so that the deaths still have impact.
I know a lot less is written about him but I’d love a video dedicated to Ned, he’s such a complex and interesting character when you go beyond the face value motive of honour
I can honestly see Penny facing a death, but not at the hands of Tyrion. And Tyrion realizing that he truly loved her, maybe not romantically but as a friend. I can see Tyrion instead of falling deep into the hatred, but deciding to honor her words to him. And become more of the show Tyrion
This confirms in my mind that D&D never actually understood any of the characters in the series. They just had a superficial liking towards certain characters (Tyrion, Renly, Starks), and preferred to either whitewash them to be better than they were (Renly supposedly caring for the realm, Catelyn supposedly feeling guilt over Jon), or paint opposing characters far worse in comparison (Stannis being a murderous horndog, Edmure being an incompetent gloryhound). They took what should have been gripping psychological dramas of inner conflict, and dumbed them down into good/evil dichotomies, with characters flipping between them like an on/off switch.
Ye one of the main reasons i stayed off the show for a while was hos much it looked and felt like a soap opera, after reading the books i actually liked the story.
Check out this INCREDIBLE Littlefinger analysis - How to Think Like Littlefinger (Petyr Baelish Analysis) trvid.com/video/video-eZB7yEm0KM8.html. TONS of GoT &other strategies on this channel. If you love it, like & sub PLS much deserved :)
I actually love that Tyrion does a somersault from the top of the door when he meets Jon. Think about it. Where would Tyrion as a highborn lord in this medieval fantasy world have learned to do that? With circus people obviously. And why would he learn to do something so dangerous and un-lordly? It sets up so much about his personality, mentality and even relationship to his family and status instantly. I honestly wish his acrobatic abilities had been expanded upon more.
It is explained in book five. He does it (somersaults, cartwheels and the like) again for the crew of the shy maid and thinks about how his uncle taught him a bit of tumbling, and he clung to it and even made cersei laugh a time or two but then tywin came home from court and put an end to all that. Then he thinks "well your a corpse, father, so i will caper as I please."
@Nn Uu He doesn't really hate being a dwarf, he totally owns it. He basically says as much to Jon at Winterfell. He just hates being disrespected for being a dwarf, but he also sort of enjoys the liberties it gives him from regular noble affairs and how it kind of places him beside normal Westerosi society, partly because that gives him a bit of power over people who foolishly underestimate him for being a dwarf. That's definitely in large part because he has no other choice and playing up being the dwarf is a facade, since Tyrion's story is ultimately about how all of it only made his anger and resentment fester inside him, but in the beginning it still definitely still counts.
I always thought it was his uncle gerion that taught him that, tyrion already hates being seen as a dwarf so I think it's unlikely for him to mingle with a circus group long enough to learn how to do a somersault.
Burning Kingslanding (dragons & wildfire) could also be done to stop a large portion of the White Walker army from adding the millions of people within KL into the army of the dead, especially if fAegon/Cersei fail in defense of the city and the undead pour into the city. Thanks for this great character summary and interpolation. P.S. There is also Darkstar... as another possible Targaryen.
There’s also the parallels of Jaime and Tyrion’s arcs. As the story progresses, Jaime becomes more heroic, while Tyrion becomes more villainous. Post-ASOS Tyrion is indeed villainous, but I still hope that Tyrion manages to redeem himself in some way before the end of the series.
Jaime will make some small token contribution then die and be remembered as the great redeemer of the Lannister name. Tyrion will make some monumental contribution, join the Watch or disappear again, and be completely forgotten by history
Just started the asoiaf books after watching the show those years ago... I had no clue how difficult Tyrions life was, and how different he is in the books. I very much look forward to reading more about this most interesting character
When I was reading the books, I always firmly believed that it was Tyrion being the third dragon, and Aegon is as you say a Blackfyre. It doesn't destroy the story with him and Tywin, but cements the fact that Tywin himself by being too cruel and vindictive brings about the end of his house. Urging and spurning Tyrion away, every action he took affecting his relationship with his "son" leading him to inevitably despise and kill both Tywin, and potentially Cersei eventually (though I think that's a task for Jamie as both redemption and a final joke) and perhaps for Jamie's part in Tyrions misery he burns the only "family" who loved him, but was once again turned by Tywin. Tyrion finds siblings/family who truly appreciate him and see past his defects, as they themselves know your birth does not define you. Jon being a bastard and Dany birthed and raised to be a bargaining chip for her brother, never intended to rise to power. In the end, Tywin's lack of humility which his father had in droves, caused the death of the Lannister house. Tyrion took on the same armour as the laughing lion. Regarding Tysha, I think the Sailor's Wife is too obvious, though it would be too perfect. You cannot be a whore if you are married after all. Unfortunately none of these plotlines will ever be answered, there will be no Winds of Winter now, GRRM has given up, he doesn't care.
Hope they make an animated series out of this story, that is completely faithful to the OG books. That would be awesome, that why they don't have to deal with an aging cast.
What I think pissed Tywin off so much about Tyrion was that he was the son he wanted. He had a brain, an ability for finances and he had the head on his shoulders to rule...if Tyrion had been born with Jaime's body he would have had the perfect son
no he wouldn't. He was who he was because how he was born. The difficulties, the way people treat you, how they look at you, they body language, facial expression, your daily, private frustrations simply because of how you look, all that changes the way you act, feel and what choices you make. There is a reason good looking people have a completely different personality, way of talk, move, interact etc than not so good looking ones.
@Phileas Liebmann first of mentality is partly genetic. IQ, mental health problems, and addictions all have proven genetic components. My point being that Tyrion would have it in him to be gifted no matter how he was raised. Thats why it makes sense.
Interestingly enough there seems to be a pattern of Targaryian infants turning out gruesome, with little wings and tail stubs. Maegor's babies, though I suspect Oldtown had a hand in that), Dany's child, Visery's son Baelor who was cut out of his mother which caused her death. There are other examples of this, some think there is a recessive dragon gene in them, that Targaryians are literally part dragon and there are those special attributes like dreaming and ability to withstand flames unscathed indicative of this assertion. My point is that Tyrion may well be half Targaryian, with that gene popping up (Though not near to the extent of most such Targ babies he lived and despite reports to the contrary didn't have wings and a tail. the Valyrians and first men share these things from opposite sides. One from ice and the other fire. First Men have greenseers and wargs.
Each day now I am more and more overwhelmed thinking that one man brought us this world, so complex, so rich in detail, so almost believable. Religions deeply described, languages spoke on episodes. Like I really strat to think Martin can channel this parallel world that runs along ours. Like how does one.und work in such efficient manner. Like holy I watch all these videos of people discussing these facts and spoken with confidence like it really happened. Stories talked about never lacking complex details. Mind-blowing.
I just want you to know that your videos are awesome and got me into reading the books after being beyond heartbroken after this shitty series that was my life until I realised how much better the books are. Cheers to my hero.
Thank you for reminding me what a remarkable writer GRRM is. The terrible ending blinded me to that, this video reminded me of just how much we still have to look forward to in the books. Now he just needs to finish them.
Excellent review. Thanks for the work you put into this. It also points to the time when the show began to veer off the rails and mangle something once-great: after Tyrion kills his father. That said, Dinklage did a great job playing the character, however whitewashed from the books, until he couldn't fake it anymore.
I absolutely love the way you did this video. I read the first 2 books but there is so much happening all the time that this was a really helpful way of following it all
i didn’t intend to watch this all in one-sitting, but watch it all i did! excellent video, excited for more to help mend my still-broken heart after season 8 ❤️
This video was the one that got me to binge all of the GoT videos on the channel and it remains my favorite. Would love to see more like this someday : )
Around 4:00, you mention how Richard III. was portrayed as this psychopathic orc and how modern history debates that. I believe that they found the late King's grave recently under some parking lot I think and found out that he was physically quite a normal guy and even quite tall for the age. I also recall the remains had quite a few signs of weapon damage and breakages, so he supposedly wasn't a craven chicken either.
Honestly I'm starting to like the idea that Tyrion never learns for certain of his parentage. It allows there to be a continuing tragedy in the fact that Tyrion keeps being reactive, keeps pinning his Fate on the actions of others, assigns meaning about who he is based on his past. While Penny represents what he COULD be if he could just let that go, or at least refuse to let it have power over him. Think of the man Tyrion Lannister could be if he CHOSE what kind of man he wanted to be, rather than play the part his trauma has chosen for him.
Frrrr I never realized how much his insecurity limits Tyrion and his potential to help people and form meaningful relationships. He reacted to his heartbreaking traumas by treating others cruelly and selfishly, even committing truly evil assaults and domestic violence. If he would just do the work to try and atone for those actions and allow people to care about him, he could use his crafty brain and political connections to help people and finally receive some real love again. At the same time, this video sorta showed me a lot of stuff I had forgotten about Tyrion and I can't really root for him no more 😬. He's crossed the line already I guess. But that's another great thing to think about! Can people like Tyrion be redeemed? This video was awesome.
No front but I was thinking I’d watched and listened to Lucifer Means Lightbringer! 😅 but don’t front, people. I am new to the deep dive game of ASoIaF
Really like your a real Tyrion video, I’ve watched it five times already. You should do a series of these videos for each major character in Game of Thrones because I feel like the latter seasons really ruined their characters.
A three way parallel arc would be interesting, and it would make sense that even if Tywin didn't think of him as his son that he wouldn't say anything to hint at it since it would give Tyrion a greater claim to the throne.
Tyrion is the perfect example of what happens when people stop believing in what they can be, and start seeing what everyone else sees in them instead. They look at Tyrion and see a kinslaying, drunken, lecherous, morally devoid monster? So be it then.
A sad part is that Jaime did the exact same thing for over a decade. Everyone viewed him as the oathbreaking selfish villain, so Jaime embraced the role of Kingslayer, to try and convince people it did not bother him. He was also rather witty at the time and I can't help but wonder if he deliberately took more points from Tyrion, using his words as a defence mechanism. But more powerful than anything else was the ability to inspire fear through his skill with a blade. He uses a sword instead of politics, but he learned to inspire fear from Tywin.
Honestly, in season 5 & 6, I actually liked how Tyrion was a damaged figure but was still heading in a path that makes him great. But yeah, seeing his plan work for Castly Rock, only for Jaime and Cersei to instead destroy his fleet, and also attack the Queen of Roses to gain her gold in season 6. Yeah. It really fucks his character over. Still, I still love the Queen Of Roses and how she burns Jaime upon revealing that she poisoned Joffrey. There are some legitimately great things to love about Season 5 & 6. But I won’t like, none of it is perfect, and the choices these characters make are extremely damaging.
I haven’t been this thrilled for a GoT content ever since the disaster of season 8. Watching this made me fall in love with GoT all over again. Thank you so much Alt Shift! Please make more detailed videos like this for every major character (or House)of the story.
@Hello it's me and about that change I can't shake the feeling that they did it just because sansas actress turned 18 around that time and they could do the rape scene for shock value and as a cheap way to move the battle of the bastards plot forward. Also her Vale plot in the books is way more interesting and more in line with her outsmarting littlefinger and making allies in the north
The show Tyrion in earlier seasons is hella charming. Peter is a great actor and naturally has incredibly charming personality. The book Tyrion is really really dark tbh
In retrospect I think the most lowdown thing Tyrion ever did was the way he treated Lancel. He needed the info and to use him as a spy, but he's family and not family like Cersei...like the young...STUPID (and a little damaged) first born son of a beloved Uncle. Kevan's reproach of him seems well founded. Tyrion could easily have worked things in such a way that he could have brought Lancel out of the situation wiser and a better person if Tyrion had just put a little effort into it, but he was too busy feeding his sense of resentment against someone who was much less smart than him because he was young, handsome and had a mouth on him....anyway, it's the one thing I feel Tyrion did that he should really be ashamed of. FWIW.
Yet, in the end we'll never truly know because Martin is so paralyzed by the fact that at this point there is no way for him to reach a "satisfactory" ending he's just gonna keep doing a touring circuit and writing other books and prequels that he's just never going to "get around to it". That's the main reason I gave up on this series and am no so reticent to start any series that is not yet completed.
