Get a free audiobook with an Audible trial: www.audible.com/asx Podcast with Quinn's Ideas: trvid.com/video/video-zG8e-WDw3a4.html Alt Schwift X Dune rap: trvid.com/video/video-bNaWeH9ehns.html Dune Q&A livestream: trvid.com/video/video-_-v_kubD5Xc.html
@Richard Strach Messerschmit inc This movie was one of the biggest endorsements of apartheid and terrorism I've seen since Rick & Morty. I enjoyed the first book enough to read it once. If I get around to it, I'm hoping the 80s movie version with Sting won't be as glaringly filled with hate crime references.
@Mims Zanadunstedt This movie was one of the biggest endorsements of apartheid and terrorism I've seen since Rick & Morty. I enjoyed the first book enough to read it once. If I get around to it, I'm hoping the 80s movie version with Sting won't be as glaringly filled with hate crime references.
@Geoffrey Walker This movie was one of the biggest endorsements of apartheid and terrorism I've seen since Rick & Morty. I enjoyed the first book enough to read it once. If I get around to it, I'm hoping the 80s movie version with Sting won't be as glaringly filled with hate crime references.
This movie was one of the biggest endorsements of apartheid and terrorism I've seen since Rick & Morty. I enjoyed the first book enough to read it once. If I get around to it, I'm hoping the 80s movie version with Sting won't be as glaringly filled with hate crime references.
I absolutely adore Dune's take on scifi, its so much more mature than most others. The idea of a religious crusade that bans computers and artificial intelligance resulting in a future based on the direct expansion of the human mind is fascinating and alluring, it really adds another level to the film when you know many of these characters are vastly more intelligent and calculated than any human thats ever lived today.
@A I think "Remembrance of Earth's Past" trilogy is much more interesting, *particularly* the idea of the Dark Forrest (the 2nd book). Where its not so much of cataclysms caused by the species itself - but that the universe is much like a dark forest and letting your presence be known (to say, predators) is extremely dangerous. Oh my god i love that trilogy. I'm definitely going to listen to the audio book again.
Dune is what I'd call 'soft' science fiction. You might want to familiarize yourself with the "Cosmic Quarantine Hypothesis." The basic idea is that any intelligence capable of developing cataclysmic technology (which would include interstellar propulsion) will very likely wipe itself out before it has a chance to travel interstellar space if it is warlike, territorial, colonizing, etc. Dune presents exactly this scenario. The primitive mentality, colonialism, tribalism etc. are not compatible with the advanced technology posited in this film..
@Kaellix But I did answer very accurately dear mr. lafmo, even in the first post, and if you don't see that, that is not my problem, but your lack of understanding and insight.... So your insults and attacks are totally missed here, and are only a poor testimony of your rotten character. Have a nice day mr. rude lafmao, that's all. Ps: The same goes for your friend, that's likes to throw warnings and threat's at others.
If they plan on being faithful to Paul's evolution over the course of the movies, it's probably a good move on their part to humanize him to the audience while they still can. 😅
I think the movie simplifies the story in a pretty fair way, which is necessary to translate the book the a new medium, however I do wish they had kept the dinner party scene. The Dune movie makes it feel like there's just a tiny colony on the planet, as opposed to different fractions and settlements.
Absolutely agree. The dinner scene presents the 'players' -- and also the main difference between the houses when Jessica bans the water squeezing and instead give a cup of water to whomever asks.
The banquet scene also served as a potent demonstration of the killer politics in the Dune universe AND how Jessica's and Paul's BG training focused the light of truth on that world's Byzantine plotting. And helped them survive the trials that lay ahead.
@Josue Peña I believe they filmed it but it ended up on the cutting room floor as it broke the flow of the story. It's funny because many fans of the film (like myself) feel like the movie could be longer, but it's just not meant to be. Some people think there could be extended cuts ala Lord of the Rings, but I don't think that's Villeneuve's style: what you see is what you get.
@Spud Eleven Agree completely. I thought the director would at least take a crack at the dinner scene which is my favorite scene since it's the one hooked me while reading it. There's a lot that you can convey without saying in film, films were at one point purely visual. A calculated close-up of eyes darting to see another characters "smile" break. Etc. There's plenty of ways you could film that dinner scene to get the audience to understand what the characters are thinking, who are they more suspicious of, who are they more trusting of. Etc. Like that girl whose job it was to seduce Paul... they could have shown someone kick her under the table like a "hey do your job" then we see her trying to be overtly friendly and Paul having none of it. I've only seen the movie once, and I'll probably never see it again. Like you said it simplified a lot in order to appeal to a large demo.
Easily the best review available of one of those 'can't-ever-be-filmed' epics. It not only looks at the differences between the film and the book but also analyses most aspects very credibly. I've been rereading this book for decades but this review brought out some aspects that I hadn't ever realised. What more can one ask for in a review? Well done!
I really liked that this review didn't overlook crucial small details, such as Lady Fenring's warning for Jessica in the arboretum. He also spent a lot more time on Yueh's motivations, which have always gotten short shrift in the adaptations (the closest was the 2000 Sci-Fi miniseries), whereas the feature films have totally ignored it as unimportant to the storyline but it was central to the plot.
@Spud Eleven My first reading was when I was hitch-hiking up to Thurso in the far north of Scotland with an Irish girlfriend from college. There I was, in the front of various lorries... I couldn't put it down! The girlfriend didn't last but the book did!
The constant quotes from the book could not have been easy to procure. I've done this work. I have the utmost respect for this video. Truly a masterpiece of analysis. You have earned a sub today.
An very important aspect about Kynes is that he actually drowned. His death is at the same time a revelation. For the spice blow actually let him fall into the pre spice mass that contains the water that the worms gather in their nymph phase. This explains where all the water went.
Arguably the best video I ever watched on TRvid… and I’ve watched a lot. Thank you for making it! Also, I feel a weird compulsion to click like and subscribe.
Thanks! This is an amazing analysis--very engaging, understandable, and inspires deeper thought beyond the story as well as pique interest in reading the rather intimidating tomes!
Bravo. I really like that you used all extant media (id est, the books, all three cinematics, the graphic novels, biographicals, memoirs, Jodorowsky [!!!] and so forth) to flesh out the story and reveal the parts which the 2021 movie flashed thru or just skipped altogether. In keeping with your "Game of Thrones in space!" (heh) remark, It's always been my belief that Dune can only truly benefit from such a long-form approach, in which the "unfilmable internal dialogue" can be exposited in a non-hokey way and developed over the course of YEARS, and not just in two or three hours (such a huge story is just too big for such piss-poor treatment). Anyhow, you've really done a good job here and although I typically lack the patience for TRvid productions more than 20 minutes long, you really did an excellent job in producing this - it was engaging, and wickedly funny in places where you deliberately chose to not take yourself (selves?) or the source material too seriously. When the 2nd half of the novel comes out in cinema, I'd appreciate it if you not only cover it in the same way as here, but also consolidate it so that your video encompasses then ENTIRE first novel. BTW I once met Frank Herbert back in 1984 when he was giving a talk at Tacoma Community College (he lived nearby), in the Fall after the David Lynch production had come out (that Summer, 1984). The TCC audience attending the talk booed that movie! Herbert agreed but also remarked that there were other developments underway, such as a miniseries. The audience applauded this (Herbert of course did not live to see the Sci-Fi Channel production, which I still believe was the most faithful so far]). trvid.com/video/video-I5VstXUVU5k.html
Great video. The first 10 minutes do a great job of explaining the complex and convoluted universe of Dune, so that it makes sense to the uninitiated - I read the books but you explained it so well and concisely that it filled in some gaps. In fact, you do a better job than any of tje films or tv adaptations, including the 2021 film you refer to. Well done Sir, you've gained a subscriber !
Congratulations for the amazing video going into to the depths of the movie and book! My sensation is that Frank Herbert is/was a truly enlightned mind capable to deeply investigate the many layers of “the Way” to Self knowledge.
Your opening where you mention that the movie didn't explain a lot of things in it reminded me of the first time I read the Kubrick/Clarke book '2001: A Space Odyssey' after having already watched the movie. The big question after watching the movie was "what does the monolith" mean? In school many people where asking this and discussing possibilities. Then I read the book. It explained it all. It is the rare movie that can be as good as a book. Interestingly enough though, the full book was written after the movie was made.
Bet this book so many times when I was about 15 16 years old. Totally lost in that world. The Herbert just pinched the Islamic religion and Sufism, and actually the Arabs themselves as his characters. But it was all good. The mind training and the "voice", involved so much in a dialogue, not easy to put across on screen.
The Dune novels, lore and earlier movies are very fascinating and I want to read or watch them all. But I also dont want to be spoiled for the second movie and its awe-inspiring cinematic first time experience for the universe.
I like that Piter de Vries must sound like a really mysterious name but Peter de Vries must be one of the most common Dutch names. It is like calling him John Smith or something.
A movie is very limited due to restrictions, it cannot capture everything the book offers. I usually read the book if I really like the movie, to learn what details of the book has been left out in the movie. And it's a lot.
Or Game of Thrones is like Dune with dragons instead of Sandworms, minus the multiple planets and space/ sci-fi aspects, or the ecology and multiple mental disciplines geekiness that I love. I've read everything available in both series, and the Dune series is far and away the best of the comparison.
I find it interesting that the insignias for the Atreides and Harkonnen always are depicted in the wrong colors. Atreides have a red falcon, and the Harkonnens a blue bull in the books. It seems we cant expect the audience to know the who are the good guys and who are the bad guys with this clear color-judging red=bad, blue=good. Historical spoken, it is that the atreides are the dubious ones and the Harkonnens the honorbound
@Griffin35 i am not sure if they have a falcon in their banner. But they said, they have a red falcon at their chest. If this symbol had a banner as background, i dont know
when I read the book I remember paul talking about the green and black atreides banner. so when you say they have a red falcon do you mean there is a red falcon in addition to the green and black on the banner? or do you mean the banner itself is red? in which case I would argue that the green of the banner still = good
Harkonnen insignia was originally a griffin in the books. The colors seem to have been changed for the game Dune II when Atreides got blue, Harkonnen red and (the previously non-existent) Ordos green.
Unfortunately, too many people will only watch the movies and never read the books which are so much better. I read the books years ago and they remain among my favorites, along with the LOTR series.
I read the original novel in the early 70's, and wrote a paper for my English class on it.. Then I read Dune Messiah and Children of Dune. Fantastic books! Saw a bit of the movie's trailers when it first came out, (with Sting), and thought they may have done a half-way decent job, but never saw the whole thing. It struck me that, like all incredible, wide-open epic tales (especially in the sci-fi genre) they'd never be able to capture the magic of the book (remember this was the '70s). That's where imagination takes over. A genuine shame that kids today don't get that kid of cerebral stimulation from reading, they're so used to having the pics already laid out for them, it really takes away so much from the experience. But the summations given here : " So Due is like Game of Thrones, in space, on drugs" are surprisingly accurate.
@John Wiks Kyle Maclachlan was a much better Paul, if a bit old for the role. Kenneth Macmillan was a fantastically maniacally depraved baron, when all we get from skarsgard is a few words and a dark stare. Dean Stockwell was the better doctor, Brad dourff was a great Piter.. I could go on.. I like josh brollin as gurney halleck, as much as Patrick Stewart was great in that role Oh and DONT get me started on Liet Kynes. Max Von Sydow RIP
Agreed, the book is beyond any director's ability to make imho. Especially this version which I think gets a big pass because it's pretty. Didn't like this Paul either he's too Ryan Gosling in his delivery.
I deeply love what you've done here mate ♥ The movie was fantastic, but I was saddened that running time couldn't allow a more complex exploration of ideas and politics. The dinner scene was specifically one that I was hoping to see. It's fun to read, but I suppose characters like Buet and Tuek would only confuse audiences when they can't be payed off in a tight feature length format. I hope you've encouraged some people to pick up the books! Well... Maybe just the first two.
@Maria r The 2021 adaptation shows her besting Stilgar, who trained someone else well enough to nearly kill Duncan, one of the most skilled fighters in the Dune universe who's capable of killing multiple Sardaukar. Doesn't sound weak to me personally.
@Maria r The book format was able to show Jessica's internal thoughts through text, but a film that isn't about fourth wall breaking characters like Deadpool can't do that. Instead, it has to be shown or implied through emotions.
@Justin Time I think they did an excellent job on representing Arrakis, I was disappointed in their set piece choices with regards to the way the different houses lived, everything seemed gray, sterile, and cavernous. The books (at least to me) conjured images of very relatable home type atmospheres, albeit with a touch of medieval castle aesthetics. I guess it's kind of difficult to articulate but what I'm trying to say is that the places the Atreides and even the Harkonnen's occupied felt like real homes not too different from our own, they just had spaceships, lasguns, force fields etc ... The movie showed giant empty, very scifi cliche environments. Some of it reminded me of the Hunger Games even. Blah blah blah I'm probably just being a nerd.
Question, if the Is cynical tool of "being loyal to your people" is carried out to the very end, where your cynical loyalty see you cynically killed to cynically save the lives of your people...is it really all that cynical? Or are you just a good person telling yourself that you're being cynical? Or are you a cynically minded person ascribing motives to the good character on the book? Or is it somewhere in between? Yeah I know i said it in a joking manor, and its an elementary question...but it's still pretty much unanswered
I've never been interested in Dune because of it's history of being overly complicated bit after watching this beautiful video I think I'd like to rewd the book. Thanks for that.
First of all, cheers to you for citing evidence via quotes for almost every claim you make. That must have been time consuming and annoying but *boy* does it add a lot to the video. Also, the visual aids were so incredibly helpful for a person who hasn’t read the books (like me). Without them, I would have gotten confused with all the names, plot lines, and locations. Amazing video, keep up the stellar work!!
even reusing the same quote doesn’t feel like faking it, there are a lot of layers to what people say. a few words can convey a lot of information in multiple ways
@Woody A standard for him, but a stellar upgrade to all other content. Literally the only reason I subscribed because my man is spoon feeding me while tucking me in at night.
I think Yueh's motivation go much deeper, yes it did it for his wife, but not to "save her life" but to end her suffering and to kill the Baron. I believe it's also important to note how sure EVERYONE is that the duke is dead already, just doesn't know it. Yueh "defeated" some of the greatest minds in the galaxy. He hid the truth from Jessica, Thufir Hawat, and almost killed the Baron. Of all the legendary characters that the attradies gathered, I think its underplayed that amoug those legends was Yueh, as great if not greater then the likes of Thurfir, Halleck, Idaho and even the Duke himself.
@good light One of the things I truly loved about _Dune_'s plot, is how Love is this seriously unpredictable "wild card" in all this intelligent well-plotted intrigue-loaded living. Yueh's love of his wife is surprisingly able to re-direct the conditioning. I'd try to argue the conditioning isn't broken. Yueh "copes" with the abduction and torture of his beloved by yielding to the Harkonnen plot, yet treacherously sets his own plan to kill the Baron, which in a twistedly-logical way is FAITHFUL to the Atreides family. therefore, this plan is something his conditioning can BEND to accept. He'd likely have turned to some sort of suicide, or snapped into some sort of madness, if he hadn't rationalized it like that. But that sort of happened, too. His decisions do lead to his death, and life as he knew and understood it become irrecoverable. " Beyond that, Jessica's love of Leto tangled up her deeply conditioned loyalties to the Bene Gesserit. Paul's love of Chani pushes him toward decisions that his mother doesn't like, toward decisions the Bene Gesserit doesn't like; those who would restore the House of Atreides don't get what he's doing, etc. Paul and Chani, to boot, are extremely young, and this was somewhat disapproved of, as I recall. (I was much happier to see a realistically adolescent Paul getting this part, although I still thought Chani doesn't look young enough). Kynes' love of his wife has a lot to do with his love of the Fremen culture. Love of what might be called the "sanctity" of Human Life might give some sort of explanation for Paul's choices to try and truly be the Lisan al Gaib and jeer at being the Bene Gesserit's planned puppet Kwisatz. I liked what this video discusses at 1:06:36 or so; "The most persistent principles of the universe were accident and error." And "Nature always has the last word." Love slams thinking into the Present, possibly even more forcefully (and usually a lot less painfully) than violent emotion. If it is present during any scheme or plan or stress, probabilities diminish and narrow possibilities materialize. With the sustenance of continuation, all surrounding plots and schemes of the past, all the old complex and careful social programming for thousands of years gets seriously rattled and challenged. Love could be seen as a sort of accidental but unstoppable aspect of Nature and the Universe. You probably didn't need a long reply like this. I read your comment that said "if all it took to break..." And I thought, but what if he didn't break? And then all this sort of "journaling" came out of me from there. But I do believe Herbert left us a story that helps us question our own "past programming" (or continuing day-to-day programming) and inspires us to open up to a much larger set of potentials and possibilities within ourselves and within our outer surroundings/situations. And while we're considering how to be the most we can be, we can consider Love and Nature as irreducible forces that will challenge/invite/sometimes-force us to be Creative and Conscious (and probably often confused) in ways that are not predictable beforehand. Our lives can be lived like a scripted movie can be played, even if improvised some, always needing our scripts. Or we can live our lives in a pre-literate or supra-literate way. No script at all. We can even improvisationally choose to explore sticking to a script, just for the experience and "journey" of it (but instead of needing the script, we've chosen it for some reason). Thank you for reading if you've gotten this far. This video went to a lot of work to really explore and explain only the first half of _Dune_'s plot, and it took nearly a movie's length of time to present it all. I thought it was well done. And this first book was always my favorite, as I suspected it was edited far more tightly as Herbert spent the longest amount of time trying to get it published (compared to the other novels). As a writer, I've found it difficult to not make changes and tweak when the manuscript is "still in my own hands." The longer it sits on the kitchen table waiting for a break, the more it invites review. The next two books feel kind of rushed to me, in contrast, as if Herbert's in a hurry to tie it all up so he can set up "the REALLY original/epic sci-fi novel" during a decade when sci-fi was usually a thin and narrow paperback with largish print and wide margins, shoved into a back jeans pocket. In the '60s, "pocket" novels were like t.v. episodes you could carry around with you. Frank Herbert was THE ONE to make science fiction seriously considerable as Literature, i.m.o.
Appreciate the response. Still, I find it contrived. It’s on a par with an episode of the TV series FBI in which the bureau is compelled to release a drug kingpin in custody in exchange for the life of an innocent woman who is strapped with a bomb vest with detonation controlled by cell phone. There are half a dozen ways to block the signal and the FBI didn’t mention any of them. The show, for one, needs better writers.
@A T They may of known /assumed she was dead, and this was just more reason to trust Yueh. At least that was the thought process that was in Jessica's head, assuming that (hate harkonens = trustworthy).
The movie was sooo frekkin good. That is what happens when you are faithful to the sourcematerial. It hurts my soul how they handled the WoT :( It to could have been this good!
I found it interesting that Gaius was Jessica and the Baron’s child, do the Baron wanted to kill his own grandson , I can’t remember if he ever realized Paul was his grandson.
This video is unfathomably well produced. I can't even begin to imagine how much work was required to pull everything together into this cohesive masterpiece
@TOMAS no, it just shows a heighliner above caladan where you can see a planet on the other end of the wormhole. It’s when Helena mohiam is flying down to caladan.
Thank God I found this, I just watched this movie and Im like I need a Phantom Menance esque movie to understand the damn religion and political side of this
@condorX2 No. Leto knew before arriving on Arrakis. He knew the Emperor had a hard-on for him because he was more popular. Also (and perhaps more importantly), along with Thufir, Gurney and Duncan they'd trained a group of Atreides soldiers beyond Sardaukar ability. And they had the formula to make more. There's a balance of military power between the Landsraad and the Imperial House, Leto was disruptive so the Atreides had to go. However, had the Baron's plan taken a month longer, Leto would've had time to befriend the Fremen and perhaps been ready to blow the Harkonnen assault away as it landed, with the added bonus of scaring the shit out of the Emperor when so few of his Sardaukar return, defeated.
@armr6 exactly. Yueh should tell Leto about his wife and all his plan because the emperor want to destroy Atreides by using Harkkonnen regardless. Leto knew about this when they sabotage his spices retrieving carrier.
@condorX2 wut? Betraying the Atreides is the biggest mess he makes. You could say Yueh unleashes the Fremen Jihad on the known universe because of that.
Paul didn't do anything beside running away. It was his his teacher and Aquaman doing all the work to keep him alive. Anyway Nice breakdown. I learned a lot from this video. I think Yueh is the most interesting character. I remember watching Daniel Wu starring in the TV show call 'Into the Badlands' . The show has stellar martial arts choreography. In Dune, he's a doctor and an assassin. It sucks when the show make him betrays the house of Atreides instead of infiltrating Harkonnens to save his wife Wanna by putting on a disguise. His aoe poison and paralyze gun along could take out anything in his path. 😅
I'm really sad they didn't include my favorite scene in the book, the dinner scene from the first part where you really see how much Paul has learned from his parents. The word fighting and tension in the scene is just beautifully written. Also, my father wouldn't let me see the movie till I read the book and once I got my hands on it I read it within three days. And I'm so glad he made me read it, it's such a good book, honestly one of my favorites now. It also gave me a chance to ask him questions about the content prior to watching the movie. I'm seeing a lot of people in the comments talking about how they didn't read the source material before seeing the movie and being so confused and I totally understand, it's such a strange movie and and even more complicated book.
@James Black I watched the movie and decided to read the book after and I must dissagree with you. I didn't feel confused when watching the movie. The only thing I didn't quite get was how the shields worked. I think a lot of people are used to movies blatanly laying everything out and they don't have to think a lot and can relax mentally while watching. I personally really enjoy movies where I have to think along and read between the frames, as long as stuff actually makes sense and isn't completely random. Reading the book just made me appreciate the whole world and the movie even more. It added a lot of detail and nuance, but I also belive the movie is probably the best adaptation you could have wished for. It captures so much of the essential themes and vibes of the book that the details that were changed/not perfect seem miniscule in comparrison. Personally I wouldn't have minded if the film went on for another 30 mins, but it was already quite long and I've seen many reviews that were complaining about it being slow paced. Although I completely dissagree with that, I can see why the creators had to make sure that the patience of mainstream audiences isn't strained all to much.
@emilie smart I agree the pacing was dreadful, the film felt so rushed. The mentats were completely left out as was one of my favorite plotlines from the book: the suspicions of treachery within House Atreides, which made Yueh's betrayal feel out of nowhere. And because of that we didn't get the intense confrontation with Hawat and Jessica either. I still enjoyed the movie but no one should ever watch it without having read the book.
The movie really was confusing if you hadn't read the book - the movie left so much useful information out of the story. Like you, I thought the dinner scene was really important and think leaving it out left a plot hole. I also disliked that the movie didn't establish a real relationship between Paul and Thufir, Gurney, and Duncan. They were integral to his success and yet they were treated as throw-away characters in the movie. You'd think that splitting the book up would have allowed time to be dive deeper into the story. My opinion is that the 1984 movie version was more faithful to the book in every way. (also TC is way too scrawny to be Paul)
I only know of the movie title and perhaps seen the cover of the book somewhere, I'm 20 minutes in and my mind has been blown the whole way through it, appreciate it.
"Game of thrones, in space, on drugs" is such a formidable pitch: it sounds so 60s yet Dune talks about such fundamentally human topics it manages to be timeless
What does it say about our society, where Game of Thrones is so popular. with blunt swords, gore galore , irrational compulsive violence: It is basically watching the Harkonons, the bad guys --is the facination. While Dune is the strategy of a disciplined mind Trying to outwit the evil of the Baron and the betrayal of the Emporer. Yes it us dated, very Ann Rynd . or the book Shibumi. where the main character's mind or witt overcomes the adversary. You guys need to read First Man In Rome and then the Grass Crown about strategy. Dune is classic Sci Fi from the 60's. to 80s. You forgot another classic Asimov's Robots of Dawn and the Foundation Trilogy. If you want more space travel. It seems the last 20 years the movie industry and popular fiction, just does not think the general population would understand something more intelligent than Young Adult fiction! ( Enders Game was pretty good and the second book was okay- Ender becomes a spiritual leader, almost a religion).
@Christopher H For me the value of Dune is mostly in how it jostles you around with no clear idea of whether the protagonists are doing the right thing or not. It asks a lot of interesting questions and leaves it up to the reader to parse what the answer should be. I won't spoil anything, but if you go beyond book 1 you'll get what I mean. Also some of the premisses are just a lot of fun to play around with. ASOIAF and LoTR are far more complex than Dune in terms of worldbuilding and individual plot lines. The prose is also significantly better, particularly Tolkien's. There are a few nuggets in the Dune series where you'll undoubtedly pause, look up and think "wait, WTF did I just read?!" ^^ Especially after book 3. But too direct a comparison probably doesn't do anyone justice. They're each doing their own thing, and I doubt Dune would be as interesting as it is if Herbert had interwoven as many plot lines as ASOIAF or detailed the history of his world as much as LoTR. As a titbit, Tolkien absolutely hated it when people lumped LoTR together with Dune. And I get that. In a very real sense, Tolkien and Herbert are polar opposites. That said, Tolkien only would have read the first novel, or at most the first two, since the rest of the Dune series was published after his death. Though tbh, if I were to wager a guess, I'd imagine he would've disliked Dune even more had he been alive to read the rest of the series.
@M K You didn't read my comment thorougly, did you? Dune is more of a mythological theater. We have THE good prince, THE good duke, THE evil baron etc. It is a very structured story with structured pure characters, exemplary in their functions. Each character has a certain cultural background and ethos which has to be followed. So, the story is constructed to play out historical and philosophical questions about the way that mankind may take in the future. In GoT the characters are not so pure. They are more realistic and down to earth. Characters are thrown into the turmoils of the world and have to adapt to the mud. What I criticize here, is the overly vulgarity that always prevails. Blood and sperm to the pleasure of the spectators. After watching this you wouldn't think that there was a strict etiquette in European medieval courts.
As some one who has read ALL of the books, including the continuation via prequels by Herbert's son, This is the best explanation of dune and it's intricacies that I have ever seen or heard. Bravo good sir. I am very impressed and grateful.
I'm not sure I agree on the lack of morality by the Atreides. They do have some compromises, they are clearly shown in the book to stand by doing the right thing, caring about lives, and being brave - even Duke Leto takes risks when things get nasty in order to help people around him. I strongly disagree with the characterization of the Atreidies as sort-of-bad-guys.
Yeah, the one thing they did was change up some things to make it more PC compared to the book which I hate. What the author wrote, he wrote for a reason. Don't change things to fit your own narrative.
"The danger of religion" is pretty real in real life, as Dune has portrayed. Frank Herbert has a vast knowledge of world's religions, if not how religions affect societies, when he was writing Dune.
The film really needed a scene where they explained the importance of Mentats in a society where thinking machines are illegal, and reveal to Paul that he has what it takes to become a Mentant himself.
Fact is Paul was not only trained in BG ways by Jessica. He also received mentat training. Trained by two the best sword masters in Dune universe - Duncan Idaho and Gourney Halleck, and thought in BG and mentat ways, Paul was a force to be reckoned with.
I agree, they didn’t explain it at all and I remember the book seeming like it had lots of moments of advanced mental calculations. Movie had that one “how much did it cost to fly here?” scene…
I knew nothing, but thanks to you, I know everything! And yet, I have much to learn... Your editing, style, voice, and rhythm are all very pleasant. I'm gonna go creep your YT page for more!
As someone who finally is deciding to get into Dune, it’s really weird realizing that “oh… everybody in all of fiction stole from this” even more than LOTR it feels like
And when you finally get into deeper layers of reality you realize that everything stole everything from everyone. And every story is a recreation of the same Journey.... Which was the friends we made along the way
@Andrew literally everything modern sci-fi is inspired if not blatantly ripping off elements from dune or lotr. I understand that a new hope straight up steals A LOT from dune but I still love star wars because it still does its own thing. Luke Skywalker is raised on the desert planet tatooine, which is basically arrakis. His uncle and aunt are literally moisture farmers like the fremen. And the empire is heavily inspired by the houses of the landsraad. 40k does the same thing but instead of exploring the damage a charismatic leader can cause, it explores just how far humanity is willing to go when on the brink of extinction.
The 40k universe is the worst for this. They have their own butlerian jihad, their own mentats, their own god emperor, their own space guild and precognition navigators. Whole lore is lifted from Dune.
The longest still on-going science-fiction book series in the world released it's first volume 4 years before Dune was even published. People like to talk about "stealing ideas" a lot, when in reality (especially today) nearly no concept and therefore work is the first of it's kind anymore. The reason why Perry Rhodan isn't as known, as let's say Star Wars or Star Trek (the series is bigger than both combined), is not because the writing or ideas are bad but because the homeland is Germany. Perry Rhodan is in fact my favorite book series and revolves around some very fantastical themes, one of which is evolution to a higher state of being. One of my favorite side stories is about a man named Ernst Ellert who is a so called _Teletemporarian_ as well as former _Parapoler_ . He can detach his mind from his body and travel between the stars and even time as mere energy, meanwhile his body enters a state of paralysis. When he once got lost in the Time Wall Universe, where he lost the ability to move through time, he influenced the race of the Spherons for many million years until he was presented with the possibility of re-entering the main Standard Universe in the form of a physical body. Many civilizations and single characters in this world have extensive background stories.
I feel like Leto and Jessica are one the deepest, most tragic love stories you could ever read. It's not about two people who sacrificed everything for their love, but rather of two people who sacrificed their love for the greater good, because they knew that in the grand scheme of things, their relationship was not important to anyone but them. They would never give up their duties just to be together, because they know that that is not what the other one would have wanted. I think this is a much deeper and much more selfless form of love, one that makes me shed a tear every time I read this book.
@StruggleOn Even worse than that: Lady Jessica chose to bear a boy instead of a girl as she was meant too. Bene Gesserit had this much control over their own bodies. This is no small feat, as she herself was a valued Bene Gesserit member, trained by Gaius Helen Mohiam herself. It was pretty clear to her and the Sisterhood, that she was one step away from giving birth to the Kwisatz Haderach, and she had been trained for this specific purpose. Her decision to mother a boy as a sign of love to her husband was also a sign of the depth of her love to Leto Atreides.
Herbert puts an extra layer of complexity on that one too in Children of Dune. Not that it changes the story, but there are aspects in Lady Jessica that are not obvious in the first book, like her relation to the Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam and how involved she herself was with the Bene Gesserit.
Turns out with ChatGPT we have a nice premise to supress robots much like in Dune. We will end up beinf slaves of the very tools we create, unless we take an ethical stand on the subject matter.
One small detail. Spice does not smell like cinnamon. Due to its psychological effects it smells different to every single person, but specifically of cinnamon to Dune's main character, Paul
Frank Herbert's deleted chapters in 'Road to Dune' say that spice does smell like cinnamon because of its composition. The cut chapters aren't canon, especially since they contradict Jessica and Yueh's canon conversation, but then spice is described as cinnamon-scented throughout the rest of the series and from other characters' points of view.
@Phil The Philosopher it probably means there's a distinct smell to it, but very few have smelt Cinnamon before so bracket into the nearest smelling object. I dont know though so perhaps it does.
"Due to its psychological effects it smells different to every single person," matter of perception. only the Kwisatz Haderach would know how individuals actually perceive the senses. Is my idea of blue the exact same blue as yours? probably quite close but after eons on different planets maybe not so much.
Excellent summary, giving perspective and clarity to things shrouded in mystery and buried under pages of philosophy. Tiny nit pick: At 15:50 "access to the memories of their ancestors and of other reverend mothers." While true, this is sort of misleading. They have complete access to one specific line of reverend memories. For their ancestors, they're only somewhat more in tune than a normal person in this universe. All instinct is ancestral memory and Reverend Mothers have stronger instincts, but they normally can't actively remember things their parents have experienced, and certainly can't remember anything from an ancestor that didn't give them genetics, (i.e. aunt or uncle). They only get complete access to memories that a reverend mother has deliberately shared with her. During the ceremony, the reverend mother who makes her a reverend mother will give all the memories she has, which includes the memories of the reverend mother before her, and before her, and so on. But the being of a reverend mother in and of itself doesn't give reverend memories, it's the ritual sharing that gives the line of memories.
So they get two sets of memories which operate differently from one another: one that the new reverend mother has always had and is now only somewhat stronger. Can't actually *remember* the memories of parents and ancestors, but can get instincts and intuition from them, And the other is the ability to share and receive memory quickly with other reverend mothers, while high on drugs. The second memory can be actively *remembered*
The Sci-fy channel's Dune Miniseries' were the most true to the books, and coincidentally also the best adaptations. The first move was horrific, and the 2021 version was a steaming pile of woke, for utterly no reason. I've not yet, nor will I waste my money on it.
I'm currently reading the book, and I appreciate your detailed analysis. It has helped me understand some of the concepts and metaphors in the book. Thank you.
The guild highliners don’t create a tunnel to another planet. You fill the center of the highliner with smaller ships, then it folds space around itself to get to the other place, it’s still kind of traveling through real space, which is why you need the navigators to find a safe path to where you are going. They are bathed in the spice melange to give them a limited prescience, they can see beyond sight, not calculate mathematics as you said. Otherwise you can blind jump (in the old days there was another way but something something spoilers)
One thing missing from this video is the Baron's plot of using "The Beast" Rabban as a temporary extreme tyrant, so that his more belov'd son (at least smarter, in the Baron's view) could look good in comparson
Minor corrections; neither Rabban or Feyd are Vladimir's sons, they're nephews who aren't even Harkonnen by birth. Glossu Rabban is part of House Rabban, which is basically just House Harkonnen but it's easier to disinherit people by dividing the family. Feyd-Rautha was adopted by Vladimir from the Rabbans to be a Harkonnen. Rabban being the scapegoat and foil for Feyd was also a salvaging of the original plan, which was to have Piter rule Arrakis and be his sadistic little shitty self; Rabban unfortunately had to fulfill that role once Piter died.
I think the passage I like the most in the book is when there is an attack on the sietch tabr and it is said that there were only old men, women, children and a few Fremen warriors. 3 large vehicles full of Sardaukar arrive at the sietch, but only 1 leaves. I had to read this passage about three times to understand how strong Fremen are.
"Everyone kinda hates the guild for being creepy extortionate space weirdos, but everyone needs them to travel." I couldn't have summed up ALPA any better.
Being an experienced video editor I can apprieciate the enormous amount of work that went into this project. May I ask how many hours you put into this masterpiece?
