THE LAST OF US Ending Explained: Was Joel Right Or Wrong?

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THE LAST OF US Ending Explained: Was Joel Right Or Wrong. In this video, we break down Joel's tough decision and whether we think he was right or wrong in what he decided to do. Marlene wanted to create the vaccine to potentially cure the infection, but in doing so revealed it would be at the cost of Ellie's life. Joel stepped in and took matters into his own hands, also lying about the events to Ellie, do you think he was right or wrong, what would you have done? let's get into it.
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Alright so The Last Of Us comes with an ending that I think will stick with everyone long after they experience it. Whether you watched the events play out in the game or show I think that it leaves a lasting impression due to the situation that the two protagonists find themselves in.
Towards the end of the story Joel finally reaches the fireflies with Ellie but he discovers that in order to make a vaccine that Ellie has to die. Joel is someone who lost his daughter and rather than going through the pain of this again he decides to murder all of the fireflies and take her back to his brother in Jackson.
Joel lies to her about what really happened and he makes Ellie believe that everything was all for nothing.
Well not for nothing as he now has a surrogate daughter and she has the father figure that she's always wanted in her life. He tells her in the show that raiders arrived at the hospital and though he leaves out this detail in the game he makes her believe that they've given up on finding a cure.
The game and show close out on the exact same scene with Ellie asking Joel to swear that everything he's said is true.
-
Now, was Joel right or wrong?
Well firstly I think we have to discuss the two sides of the argument and how Marlene and Joel are actually pretty similar.
Both were tasked with guarding Ellie and they made a promise to protect her. Both knew that she was immune and both were told that there was a way to manufacture a cure from her.
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13 Mar 2023

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Heavy Spoilers 2 aylar önce

Let us know your thoughts on the choice Joel made at the end. If you enjoyed this video then please subscribe to the channel trvid.com/show-UCq3hT5JPPKy87JGbDls_5BQ *Check out our BEST new videos below* *You Season 4 Part 2 Ending Explained* - trvid.com/video/video-mU0RYZ2sTq0.html *Mandalorian Season 3 Episode 2* - trvid.com/video/video-FgsocRqOOA4.html *The Last Of Us Episode 9 Breakdown* - trvid.com/video/video-q2-Egs56y_I.html *Creed 3 Ending Explained* - trvid.com/video/video-ghx9yBD0MBI.html *Kang's New Origin Story Explained* - trvid.com/video/video-Y_UawvyLX0Q.html *Ant-Man And The Wasp Quantumani Post Credits Scene* - trvid.com/video/video-6MgQfDj7pvM.html

colpul2 2 aylar önce

Here's the thing that makes me 100% side with Joel: Ellie wouldn't be dying for a cure, she would have been killed for the CHANCE at a cure. It wasn't Eillie = vaccine, it was Eillie = MAYBE a vaccine. And that chance seems from what the show told us to be vanishingly small. And, they gave Joel no reason to believe it was more than a shot in the dark. The Doctor is just a doctor, not specialist or researcher who'd been studying this type of thing, just a doctor. The opening of the series remember? "And, there are no treatments for this. No preventatives, no cures. They don't exist. It is not even possible to make them." Yet a Family Med doctor with decades old equipment and no support academically technically knows how to get the cure? They are so sure they need to put her down with in hours of her arriving. They don't want to study her? Maybe run some blood work, giver an MRI, CT scan... or test a sample of the fungus from her? They are only speculating on a hypothisis why Ellie is immune (actually asymptomatic)? Maybe it isn't a chemical, maybe it's in her genes. Maybe it is the strain she’s infected with like having had cowpox makes you immune to smallpox. Maybe the cure lies in her antigens, maybe a biopsy of her cortex would be enough, or a spinal tap to examine the chemicals and see if they can be synthetically produced.... If they have the capacity to get a cure from a dead Ellie they should also the capacity to get a cure from an alive Ellie. But they don't even have the facilities or expertise to examine or test so they are just throwing a dart blindfolded from a merry-go-round in a pitch black room not knowing if there's even a dart board there. And by going ahead with this they lose any future chance that they could actually find a cure from experiments with Ellie’s resistance.

Keltic Fury 2 aylar önce

Joel wasn't right, but I would have done the exact same thing.

OneUP 2 aylar önce

Another thing about Ellies choice, if it was you that was Ellie...should you have really make the choice to end your life to "potentially" save the human race...

jcaashby3 2 aylar önce

From what we see in the show the infected are not even a threat. Its starvation, exposure and raiders are the bigger threat. Being free from the virus seems LOW on the totem pole.

Paul Pacheco 2 aylar önce

I think there is an important fact about Marlene: She never asked Ellie. Ellie would have said yes, but Marlene didn't know that. Ellie did not owe humanity anything. So Marlene was also in the wrong. The choice did not belong to her. Her action, no matter how noble the cause, was still murder.

HydrangeaDragon 2 aylar önce

Ellie is a minor, is seriously traumatized and has tremendous survivors guilt, she's not able to give legitimate consent to any such a thing

Paul Pacheco 2 aylar önce

@HydrangeaDragon I agree with all that. However Marlene is not her parent or guardian, and her parents are not around to ask them. Quite the opposite, her mother explicitly told her to protect Ellie. So either way, Marlene had no right to make that decision for her.

JBR 2 aylar önce

@Paul Pacheco technically she is her guardian, Ellie's mom gave her to Marlene before she died

Bre Burke 2 aylar önce

@Paul Pacheco If her mother explicitly told Marlene to protect her doesn't that technically make her Ellie's guardian?

Imesh Umayanga 2 aylar önce

@Bre Burke And her guardian’s decision is to kill her without consent? Her mother would agree that Joel is the better guardian.

morimo11 2 aylar önce

If Marlene wasn’t in such a rush to get Ellie into surgery it may have ended differently. If Joel had been able to see Ellie and ask her if she was willing to die, he may have let it happen. Maybe not, but we believe Ellie would say yes and Joel respects Ellie, and I think he would have respected her choice.

Mr. Context 2 aylar önce

Even if he wouldn’t respect her choice, can we really blame him? NO, but it would make so much more sense with part two.

morimo11 2 aylar önce

@N H when did I ever say that I thought it would work? I’m saying Marlene could have probably prevented Joel from killing everyone by either asking Ellie, letting Joel see her, or both,

mr x Aylar önce

@morimo11 yes joei did the right thing i would have did the same thing to save her i would have killed all the flyflies.

TheNeon42 Aylar önce

@morimo - Thank you for bringing this up. It drives me crazy how this is not mentioned enough. The Fireflies did not treat Joel with enough respect, nor Ellie for that matter. Considering that they traveled so far on their own, the original meet up spot was littered with dead fireflies, Tess is not with Joel and Ellie, and that the fireflies wanted to kill Joel instead of honor their deal. If this story was made in the 1990's then perhaps, Joel and Ellie would have been able to say their goodbyes to each other and the story would have ended bitter-sweet. But Noooo! they thought they could push Joel around and that's exactly what they got because of it. Sir you get a 👍from me!

seth morales 2 aylar önce

I lost my 6 week old son in a car accident in 2020 and I can really relate to Joel’s decision, I just had a son last year and I treat this child completely different now, I should probably not be so protective of him but I can’t go through that ever again

粘土クインシー 2 aylar önce

Condolences

seth morales 2 aylar önce

@粘土クインシー thank you

Roberto L. Pineda 2 aylar önce

I'm sorry. Wish you and your son a happy life.

Gamernlte 2 aylar önce

im sorry for your loss

M Anton 2 aylar önce

Sorry for the loss, brother.

Jake Meyer 2 aylar önce

One thing is certain. If I were Marlene, I definitely would have waited until after the deed was done before telling Joel. I get why she thought Joel would understand, but her fatal mistake was not knowing about his daughter.

Mark dela vega 2 aylar önce

Bro..In part 2, they show what really happen before Marlene tell Joel that Ellie will die..I highly suggest you search it on youtube... ..Apparently, Dr. Jerry Anderson don't want Marlene to tell Joel that the operation will kill Ellie, but Marlene insist that Joel has the right to know cause he risk his life to take Ellie to them...They also show that Marlene don't want to sacrifice Ellie, She tell Dr. Anderson, "If that was Abby, your daughter, would you still do it???" At first, I thought Joel's decision to finish Marlene is the right thing to do...After watching part 2, I realized Marlene was honest whenshe tells Joel that the firefly won't pursue Ellie anymore that is why Joel should show mercy on her...

Joseph Thompson 2 aylar önce

Well Written

Gadget-Walkmen 2 aylar önce

It's not just "not knowing about his daughter", it's just that Marlene COULDN'T have known how much time joel and ellie spent with each other and how much they bonded along the way. That simple.

The Sunday Shooter 2 aylar önce

@Mark dela vega That's a retcon, doesn't count ツ

Mark dela vega 2 aylar önce

@The Sunday Shooter Most people count retcons, including me..If you don't, that's fine with me...Beside I don't consider it as a retcon cause I don't find any inconsistency about that plot and I always think that delaying the showing of Marlene and Dr. Anderson's conversation is part of plan cause it will make the players symphatize to Joel even more and it work tremendously that most players closed their mind about the beauty of Part 2 coz IMO Part 2 is better than part 1...I might be alone in that opinion so please don't crucify me because of that :)

Ian Santos 2 aylar önce

I lost my Brother in 2009, when he was 25. To this day, every day since, I’ve felt that loss. My Mom did, too. I feel like I can relate to Joel’s long lasting grief, and think it was portrayed so well in the show.

Edward Nygma 2 aylar önce

Im sorry for your loss

Ian Santos 2 aylar önce

@Edward Nygma Thank you. I appreciate this.

Yol2000 2 aylar önce

Sorry fpr thw loss of your brother. I agree that the portrayal of grief was well done.

Chaz from the Burg 2 aylar önce

Here's another question: would Abby's dad have been so willing to sacrifice her life for a potential cure?

KAYLA 2 aylar önce

I don't believe that he would. Marlene asks him twice in the flashback from TLOU2 if he would make the same decision with Abby and he never answers her.

C Leigh 2 aylar önce

good point to ponder

J K 2 aylar önce

No. He also decides to pull a scalpel on Joel instead of getting out of his way, even though Joel has a gun. How insane is this guy about cutting up Ellie? He's a doctor! What sort of doctor kills patients?

Ad Tastic 2 aylar önce

What kinda Dr operates on someone without consent?

GKombat 2 aylar önce

@Ad Tastic the kind that got consent from her guardian.

David Ruiz 2 aylar önce

Joel essentially made the same decision that Ellie's mom made when Ellie's mom told Marlene about cutting the cord after she was bit....she lied to save Ellie's life the same way Joel did. It shows us what we as parents will do to save our kids

alastair clarke 2 aylar önce

Well said.

Twistedwolf2000 2 aylar önce

I just don't understand why He did'nt just tell her what they were going to do? I mean they put her under and were not goin to give her a choice or tell her. We don't know 100% if the cure would even work.

Sam lipper 2 aylar önce

@Twistedwolf2000 ellie was willing to die for the cure

Brandon E. 2 aylar önce

DEEP

Brandon E. 2 aylar önce

@Twistedwolf2000 you should be asking that question of Marlene. Ellie would've made the sacrifice willingly but not without letting Joel know her decision. Joel would've respected it Marlene ruined EVERYTHING with her approach. Marlene just proves the modern woman isn't built for the apocalypse 😂😂😂

Phillip Walker 2 aylar önce

It's honestly not a hard choice. You don't take the child's life. I mean you can't even guarantee killing her will result in a cure. I recall hearing this similar scenario in a Twilight Zone episode or an Outer Limits episode.

SecretGrim 2 aylar önce

Ellie saved humanity, Joel's humanity, which in turn made Joel save Ellie.

Big Olomofe 2 aylar önce

that is just a messed up twist lol

Miko Aylar önce

and murdered everyone in the process. the end didn't justify the means.

Thomas Smithson 2 aylar önce

When Marlene said “what would Ellie want” I laughed. If I was Joel I would’ve said “idk and you don’t either because you didn’t ask her.” The hypocrisy of the fireflies is enough for me to agree with what Joel did on it’s own. Then add in no one even knows if the surgery or cure will even work and the sneaky, knife in the back, way the went about everything they did and I don’t blame Joel at all.

DanFarrell98 2 aylar önce

I think Joel knows Ellie would want to sacrifice herself

Joshua Thomas 2 aylar önce

@DanFarrell98 do you think if Riley was alive she still would’ve wanted to do it

Jacob Gonzalez 2 aylar önce

@DanFarrell98 How would you know?

DanFarrell98 2 aylar önce

@Jacob Gonzalez I don't know. I said 'I think'. But based on what she says throughout both games, especially Part II

Evanjuleen 2 aylar önce

I fully believe they wouldn't have found a cure and it would have been for nothing....

Carlie Mccoy 2 aylar önce

I feel ellie wasn't expecting to die she said she would follow him anywhere and Marlene didn't say it was for sure that this would actually work as a vaccine

Cliohna 2 aylar önce

That's exactly it. She didn't know she might die. Although she says in episode 9: "After all we've been through, everything I've done. It can't be for nothing." She also says: "When we're done, we'll go wherever you want. Tommy's, sheep ranch, the moon. I'll follow you anywhere you go." Clearly indicating she expects to survive anything the Fireflies do to her for the cure. When she says "There's no half way with this. We finish what we started." She was talking about getting her to the Fireflies. At first it was just to the ones outside of Boston. That was the mission. They already went above and beyond if you think about it.

Emperor Palpatine 2 aylar önce

The show literally implied that the vaccine would work…

Jacob Gonzalez 2 aylar önce

@Emperor Palpatine Proof?

None of your Business 2 aylar önce

@Emperor Palpatine literally the opposite. Right at the beginning they were talking about how fungal infections would be much worse than a virus. And that tracks. In the real world, things kept going and we still don't have a vaccine against any fungal infection. Neither harmless but annoying ones, nor actually dangerous ones. In the TLOU universe, things stood still for literal decades, Ellie has a unique condition as far as anyone knows, and somehow some random Firefly "scientist" has the answer without being able to do any research? It's the Fireflies saying "dude, trust me" and nothing else.

Emperor Palpatine 2 aylar önce

@Jacob Gonzalez It’s literally said in the show. Hell, even the writers said so.

s0nicx 2 aylar önce

I think something that the games also show a lot better is Marlene's character in terms of her "leadership". The point that Marlene/the fireflies would just hand out the cure (and there's another rabbit hole of questions to go there but lets assume it works), is completely divorced from reality. In the games its made very clean through the audio logs that Marlene is way more power hungry than she lets on and would anything to keep herself on top. Tommy hinted at this at the Dam when talking about why he left them.

Lucyan December 2 aylar önce

o.o

Daniel Salas 2 aylar önce

Great input

Lucky Rodriguez 2 aylar önce

People think the procedure was guaranteed but in reality there was no guarantee they would have found a cure.

cky776 2 aylar önce

Right??

jcaashby3 2 aylar önce

Also from the show only. Were the infected that big of a threat? The show failed to show them as a threat at every turn. So it made me feel like is a cure really needed? Sure it would be great but I could easily see the fireflies being selective who gets it and who doesnt. IF it even worked like you said.

A Weaver 2 aylar önce

Exactly. It looked like that "surgeon" was running a pretty half ass operation. Is he a lab tech, too? An expert in virology? Shouldn't they keep her alive for extensive research and trials? I'm with Joel.

rieyuki 2 aylar önce

@A Weaver In a bigger comment here, I basically said the same things you did here, and argued that the doctor was grossly incompetent because he must have been a chiropractor. Boy was way out of his league. 😂

TC Whiting 2 aylar önce

Joel is the true definition of a “renegade” he’s willing to unspeakable things for those he cares for.. showing an enormous amount of love ❤️ while at the same time is completely heartless … the complexities are fascinating

Leslie Hardeman 2 aylar önce

After my nephew was adopted, I avoided all kids, and never wanted to have any myself. In my 20's I had a daughter, she was a perfect little asshole, just like her dad was. He died when she was 3 so I really loved that was just like him. She's now 21 and if I had to give her up to save humanity, I'd totally do what Joel did so I'm on his side. I'd become a mass murderer for my daughter. I believe that Marlene knew Ellies mom was bit while she was still umbilically attached to Ellie, she had to have been aware that was why Ellie was immune. Knowing all that I don't understand why Marlene didn't round up some other pregnant women and have them bit right before they give birth. It's just as fuked up as Marlene letting her friends child be a lab rat/killed to find a cure...

heretics1987 2 aylar önce

There was no guarantee the procedure would have resulted in a cure, and Ellie's death most likely would have been in vain. Marlene and the Fireflies were just putting all their faith in some last ditch effort to end the apocalypse, but realistically the answer is more complicated than 1 immune girl and a room with 3 medical staff. They already had a flashback earlier in the season where an expert in the field of fungai said there was no cure and subsequently informed the military to bomb an entire city; that's with a whole slew of resources and doctors that could have worked towards a cure and something the post outbreak world was very much lacking. I also find it pretty hard to believe that the Fireflies were the sole group to find someone immune. The CDC and U.S. government have way more resources than some ragtag faction and those institutions didn't just fall over night; odds are they encountered people immune to the Cordyceps and experimented on them with no success. The real moral question here is whether we take that risk to give humanity a chance at a cure or save a single life knowing there are no guarantees? I am a father of 3 and being put in Joel's situation I would have made the same choice, and accepted whatever consequences came with it.

Ramzan Kadyrov 2 aylar önce

Exactly. Father of 2 girls and 2 boys here and I would slump an entire building too to save them.

BubblyinUSA2010 2 aylar önce

I think Joel was right in saving Ellie . There was a huge if when it came to a vaccine that could be made ,that would work. He loved her as a daughter and didn’t want her to die. There was no guarantee that this vaccine would work or even made! Joel needed Ellie and Ellie needed Joel. They grew to love and trust each other as family. Something they both missed. They each filled in a part of the other that was desperately needed, which is a good thing! So yes, Joel did the right thing❤

England Calling 2 aylar önce

Marlene's unwillingness to even ask Ellie for her permission, showed her own indifference, to the lives of others. She was willing to murder a child, because she believed Ellie, had greater value, as a dead medical experiment, than alive as a child. There is no right or wrong here, only tragedy. A truly stunning TV series.

KAYLA 2 aylar önce

Feel like so much of this could have been avoided if the Fireflies didn't just throw Ellie's consent out the window. If Joel could have been given time to see Ellie to talk about the procedure and Ellie given time to talk to him, I feel like she could have convinced him that that was what she 100% wanted to do with her life and was ready to lay down that sacrifice. While it would have still hurt to let her go, at least Joel would see that it was, in fact, her choice to go through with the brain surgery and respect that. So if we're choosing teams, I'm personally siding with Joel on this one.

Casey Hart 2 aylar önce

Indeed. The fireflies demonstrated pretty conclusively that if Ellie did decline to go through with it hearing the consequences, they would have still tried to kill her anyway

Yusuf Raage 2 aylar önce

Marlene didnt ask because she doesnt know Ellie and she could not risk the chance of being honest. If Joel were in her position he would know Ellie is a savior and would save anybody let alone the whole of humanity.

Billy Korando 2 aylar önce

Marlene/Fireflies didn’t ask because they sacrificed too much/were too bought in on their path that they weren’t in a position to respect a “no” from Ellie.

Am Idopey 2 aylar önce

100% agree with this… Ellie wasn’t given the opportunity to choose… her agency was taken away and that was wrong… and they (Joel/Ellie) weren’t given a chance to say goodbye…

Tracy Dale 2 aylar önce

I agree.

Nabsy B 2 aylar önce

The last moments of Ellie’s mode and her plans for the future kinda made Joel believe that she wouldn’t want that.

Julia A 2 aylar önce

I think it's a beautiful paradox: Marlene should have asked Ellie, but we only know that because we know Ellie, having watched her journey. However, if Marlene had come to know Ellie as the audience and Joel have (as a parent), would she have been able to sacrifice her? Or would she, like Joel and Anna, have decided to save Ellie?

Yoriichi 2 aylar önce

This was a "crime of passion" for me. I think one key point that people don't mention is the fact that Marlene said she understands but Joel on his knees said "Please...You don't understand" Marlene didn't understand this Joel that has found and felt love once again.

mr x Aylar önce

yes joei did the right thing i would have did the same thing to save her i would have killed all the flyflies.

Jeremy Hinton 2 aylar önce

I lost a child in August 2020, he was terminal, unfortunately. So we kind of expected it, but I am definitely more of a papa bear with my other three children as I can never go through that again. So I can definitely relate to Joel in that aspect.

Perceived Velocity 2 aylar önce

A parent's purpose is to protect their child and prepare them to be an adult. Sacrificing a child for the greater good goes against every instinct that a parent has. I strongly suspect that the vast majority of parents would do exactly what Joel did if they were asked to make that choice.

Benjamin King 2 aylar önce

The biggest flaw in this part of the story was how quickly the doctor landed on 'we gotta kill her.' A proper brain surgeon could take a sample of the cordyceps from the immune host's brain without killing them. If you only have one sample source for this benign type of cordyceps, you would want to preserve the host body as long as possible. I would think you'd run trials with the first replicated samples, in-vitro and in-vivo testing in animals which were known to carry the harmful cordyceps first, then on humans who were either just infected or terminal patients who were willing to volunteer to be infected. But you'd keep Ellie alive until you figured it out, right? You've waited 20+ years for this. Killing her would be a last resort and only after months upon months of alternative failures. This leads me to believe they were going to fail to produce a cure from the outset. Joel, as a father, did the right thing. His only mistake, which we know he will pay dearly for, was lying to Ellie afterward.

GKombat 2 aylar önce

I'm guess they didn't have right tool to ensure ellie was stable during the procedure.

jon chambers 2 aylar önce

I think it is important to note that Marlene was never a mother figure to Elle. She never cared enough about Elle to be a part of her life. She did the bare minimum that was asked if her by Elle's mother and that is consistent with her character. The only thing that mattered to her was the revolution she was trying to achieve. She would have sacrificed anyone to further her goals.

MALLYGEEZ1 2 aylar önce

Joel actually didn't go against Ellie wishes. Ellie thought she was gonna live. She said after this, she would follow him anywhere. Marlene is the bad one here. She admitted she didn't give Ellie the choice. And joel couldn't make them wake Ellie to give her the choice. Because they clearly didn't care what Ellie would choose. They chose for her. They don't even know if it would work. They weren't gonna test her blood or anything else first. They essentially were gonna kill Ellie. Because she had no idea they were gonna take her brain out. That's murder. Also, what would they do with the cure if it worked. Would they hold it over people head?

Michael Taylor 2 aylar önce

This is completely true. I think Ellie's wishes would also consider what the decision would mean for Joe. I doubt she'd rush to be the martyr until it was clear there were no other options.

MALLYGEEZ1 2 aylar önce

@Michael Taylor When Marlene said, I didn't tell her. I was like, is this lady crazy. Also, they're not gonna test her blood for antibiotics? Then the surgeon saying I don't know if we have enough power to finish the surgery. Really!

chatter 2 aylar önce

oh, they for sure could've waited in that garage, or let her choose after they left the place. but both of them didn't care about her choice tbh

MALLYGEEZ1 2 aylar önce

@chatter There was no waiting in the garage. Why would joel trust Marlene after she didn't tell Ellie. And threatened to have him shot if he tried anything. Joel only had 1 option. Get her out of there. Marlene definitely did not care about Elie choice. Why would she honor her waking up for a choice. Joel had every reason not to trust anything Marlene said in that garbage. He doesn't know if she has more men on the way. Joel would have be killed, and Ellie brain would have been taken out.

Joanne Homar 2 aylar önce

Love this show! Joel is a terminator.! Love him and Ellie great chemistry, Can't wait till season 2.❤️

Chris K 2 aylar önce

Have you seen a show......you may have heard of it...called the Walking Dead? The last of us is a watered down me too version of it. Do your self a favor and watch the first 4 seasons. Now that's good writing and directing for you. This is slop.

Billy 2 aylar önce

There’s some connection here with what happens with Ellie, and when Kathleen tells Henry that “kids die Henry, they die all the time”. Like how much is one child worth? Or something.

L05 2 aylar önce

Great point

The Sunday Shooter 2 aylar önce

Yep- last time Joel heard an argument like that, ended worse for everybody

Leeroy Jenkins 2 aylar önce

Let's focus on the events that happened in this episode. - Joel gave Ellie another choice to just go back to Tommy's and forget about the ~cure~ but respected Ellie's wishes to continue going on - The Fireflies, for some big brain reasons, decided to throw a grenade at them rather than just stopping them to idk escort them to the hospital???? Lmfao instead, bomb goes boom. -Joel opened up to Ellie, became vulnerable and honest. That moment together was their way of saying I love you to each other (confirmed by the showrunners in the podcast) so they obviously care for one another. Ellie as Joel's another chance to save his "daughter" and Joel as Ellie's person who will never leave or die, hence her saying she's glad Joel failed to aliven't himself. - Marlene, another smooth brain, didn't inform Ellie about the surgery. Ellie thought they're just gonna draw blood from her and it's done. Given that the Fireflies soldiers only knocked Joel out (at least that's how we're shown), couldn't they or Marlene talk to Ellie about things pre-surgery? Nope, Marlene didn't want Ellie to have autonomy. She's willing to sacrifice her best friend's daughter for a cure that's not even guaranteed to work. Remember Ellie's mom Anna telling Marlene to find someone to take care of Ellie? Marlene was never a parental figure because she's busy being a leader. When she tells Joel she understands, it's coming from a different point of view. Joel protected Ellie as his own daughter, Marlene cared for Ellie because of a promise to a friend and now, she's a potential bandaid solution to a seemingly endless problem. A cure? The doctor from the 2nd episode already said it's impossible, there's nothing like it. -Even the doctor is Jimmy Neutron Albert Einstein IQ level, him and 2 nurses can't realistically create and synthesize a cure. That hospital is dirty as shit as well. I'm sure I missed a lot but yeah. Sure as shit that "cure" won't work. Seriously, we were in a pandemic and look how long it took for them to develop vaccines, heck, the virus is not even eradicated completely. This is different from the cordyceps in the show and for sure, based on the professor that we've seen in episode 2, there's no cure for that nor will it miraculously eradicate the cordyceps all over the world.

zizoumonk10 2 aylar önce

Artistic licenses taken for dramatic amelioration

Polly Puffington 2 aylar önce

BINGO!! ALL THIS RIGHT HERE⬆️

Adwoa Karen Mitchell 2 aylar önce

Exactly

Marshall Scot 2 aylar önce

Even if Marlene had asked for Ellie's consent, she would have been manipulating a child with survivors guilt into throwing her life away for nothing. Joel did the right thing as her father and guardian no matter which way you slice it.

Richard Barton 23 gün önce

Whoa I did not think of that if that's the case then Marlene can burn in hell

wilkimist 2 aylar önce

It's rare that Joel and Ellie experience a humanity that is worth saving. Marlene and the fireflies are ready to kill Ellie after a year of not knowing she's alive or even on the way. No tests, no preparation to make a cure, no consent from Ellie that she is willing to give her life. When Marlene is telling Joel it's what Ellie wants, she knows she has no understanding of what Ellie wants and is willing to sacrifice, which is why they never asked her or told her what would happen. It's hard to say Joel didn't make the right decision when the Fireflies haven't shown to be moral actors to be trusted.

Alpacain10 2 aylar önce

Everything about resources, firefly incompetence, “the world isn’t worth saving”, the fireflies being just like FEDRA, whether or not the cure is possible, and on and on, ultimately doesn’t matter. One thing matters to Joel in that hospital, “Ellie is my daughter and if you try to kill her, I’ll kill you”

Carlissa Neumann 2 aylar önce

I absolutely understand and was rooting for Joel. After everything they had been through together, and Joel had just opened his heart up again for her. It would have killed him if she died. When you love someone you would kill the whole world just to save them, and that’s exactly what he did.

CG Projects 2 aylar önce

Somewhere in an alternate reality, Joel, Ellie and Marlene have a conversation. After intense deliberation, Ellie volunteers, no cure is found. A broken Joel walks off into the sunset and spends his life on an abandoned golf course.

Heltaku 2 aylar önce

Imo it isn't so much about Joel choosing wrong, it was about Marlene making bad choices regarding both Ellie and Joel. She should have either talked to both of them together about what the situation entailed and let them discuss it and come to the conclusion that it's what needed to be done and what Ellie wants, or she should've just killed them both mercifully. Ripping Ellie unceremoniously away from Joel and trying to force him to just go away and do nothing was the most disastrous choice she could have made.

Prince Royalz Beatz 2 aylar önce

true true and it caused him to act the way he did, ellie was ready to do it but Marlene execution of it was totally off. Not gonna lie i understand why he did what he did but i hate he did it because i love Marlene so i can say now Joel death would not be sad for me but Ellie reaction to it will probably touch me more than him actually dying, this is honestly the joel i didnt wont but whatever

Gina Wolfe 2 aylar önce

I agree. Marlene treated Joel and Ellie as, how Joel put it in the beginning,“cargo”. She too had lost her own humanity. I keep saying this, but why was surgery the only option??? How do we know that she can’t pass on the immunity to a child??? Maybe try harvesting some eggs first.

Enoch Graham 2 aylar önce

Really good points dude. Also, sorry that other guy copied your comment. In the future, don't engage with people who do that. It just makes their plagiarized comment higher in the TRvid algorithm

Azriel884 2 aylar önce

I came here to give this comment a like since that other person copy and pasted your comment. If y'all both bots, ima feel like an idiot🤣

Colin Smith 2 aylar önce

Here are a few question for all Pedro as The Mandalorian did the exact same thing in rescuing Grogu (Baby Yoda at the time) in Series 1. The only difference here is that Grogu was held by the ‘Evil Empire’ and Mando (Pedro) killed a lot of Storm Troopers too (like we have seen many people do countless times before - plus Storm Troopers with armour seem more like robots than humans) There was literally zero outcry over this and it is pretty much the exact same scenario - rescued a child, took said child on an adventure to be dropped off at the end, people at the end wanted to do a medical experiment on the child. So my first question - none of actually know if the Firefly’s are good, bad or indifferent or what their motivations are, so we? (maybe they are not the Empire, but killing a child to see if they ‘might’ be able to do something is pretty bad) Also the Doctor at the end (who is important) didn’t want to let her leave - why did he think he knew best too?

Gail Seaton Humbert 2 aylar önce

Thank you for your reactions to this story. It's pretty simple Ellie wasn't given a choice. They were going to kill her always for others benefit. Standard medical situation ethics question they have been using since after WWII and the concentration camps and medical experiments carried out on prisoners there also without consent. Joel is ethically correct and nobody knows if killing Ellie for this experiment would even work as a cure for others.

BillNyeGuy 2 aylar önce

Joel didn’t do what he did for Ellie. Joel did what he did for Joel. I think the bts with the creators brings that idea to home even more.

Mischa Rowe 2 aylar önce

There is no cure so, at the very least, all he did was keep her from dying in vain. People go on and on about whether or not Joel did the right thing while ignoring the fact that this could've been avoided if Marlene had been honest with Ellie before putting her on that table.

Doc M 2 aylar önce

I honestly don’t think a single loving parent would make a different choice. I would absolutely set the world on fire to save my two kids.

Christina Russo 2 aylar önce

Any parent or person that has experienced the type of loss that changes your entire life, it’s not even a question. And even if you haven’t, episode one they had that biologist from Jakarta explicitly say, there is no cure for this type of infection. If there was no hope for a cure while the world was at its best, there’s no way one team of medical professionals are engineering a vaccine in that run down hospital. This was the best version of Joel and he is the true hero IMO. These insane people were going kill the only known immune person to exist- if the vaccine fails, they destroy their only hope in finding out what or why she is or became immune. Keeping her alive, researching, reproducing her genes, is what could actually save the world.

Chris Sheaves 2 aylar önce

Also didn't they say that they thought that her infection made her invisible to the cordyceps? The two bites say that's a lie, never mind if they had talked to her she could have said, "Oh yeah they chased me all the time". I think he did the right thing because all it was in the end was hope, misplaced at that.

Adrian Van Leeuwen 2 aylar önce

The biologist was sort of wrong. Ellie's existence proves there is another method of bypassing one type of infection with another type of mutated infection that is less life threatening.

Matt Gilbert 2 aylar önce

Yes. Ellie was new data that biologist did not have access to, although the logistics of manufacturing and distributing the treatment are mind-boggling. If we assume that it is possible, even a small possibility, then I would have to say that it's worth the sacrifice. Empathy is not always the best guide to making morally defensible decisions. Rationality tempered by compassion is better.

Fernando Garajalde 2 aylar önce

6:02 on this we agree; Ellie’s pause between Joel’s swearing to the lie and her “Okay” is what she was thinking through and settling for the best of both.

Carolyn Saffoe 2 aylar önce

I like that a lot of the characters in the show are morally ambiguous. That ambiguity is a marker of what it takes to survive in this new world. The question you pose makes me think of Henry. He chose to try to save his brother’s life by giving up a man who was almost a Saint and who could have acted as a moral beacon in a harsh world. Henry tells Joel, “I am the bad guy because I did a bad guy thing.” I, however, know I probably would have done the same to save my brother. When I look at the choices Henry and Joel made, I think it’s too easy to say they were “the bad guy.”

RodCornholio 2 aylar önce

Trust is huge. When she finds out about his lie, that could be difficult to recover from. He should have said, "They were going to take your brain in the HOPE that some doctor's theory about a cure was right. It may not have worked. You aren't an adult yet, so you can't make that choice. So I did. And I killed everyone that was a threat including Marlene."

LeoB 2 aylar önce

Yeah, but, then we wouldn't have a part 2 :-) But you are right - that probably would have been the best thing to say to salvage the situation.

jon chambers 2 aylar önce

Do you think the Fireflies would give the cure to everyone? I think they would use it as leverage against anyone who was not on their side.

Mitchell Mark-George 2 aylar önce

I like how everyone doesn’t even consider the possibility that the cure might not work and Ellie could die for nothing. The real question is: is it better to die for nothing or live for nothing?

Richy 2 aylar önce

That's an interesting point. Although, perhaps another way of looking at it is that maybe by keeping Ellie alive, it gives them a chance to see if they can find another doctor/organisation later on that might be able to do a better job of finding a cure without gambling with her life. From that perspective, it's no longer do you risk dying for nothing or living for nothing. Instead the question becomes something like do you risk dying for nothing now or do you stick around in hopes of finding something more guaranteed in the future? Because if the fireflies failed with the approach they were taking, then humanity ends up doomed anyways. So maybe the smarter choice is to keep young Ellie alive and go looking for a better solution for a cure rather than gambling her life away with such a lethal and unproven approach?

Jack K 2 aylar önce

@Richy I'd find it very difficult to trust the instincts or knowledge of medical people who seemingly easily throwing away the first principle of medical ethics "first do no harm".

David 2 aylar önce

Joel was more brutal than the punisher going through the fire fly like hot knife through butter. Fantastic episode

Izanagi 2 aylar önce

That was a cool sequence indeed! But I found it a bit odd, in the TV series they express how "old" and "weak" Joel is getting. And someone like his younger brother Tommy might be more suited to look after Ellie. Yet at the end there he pretty much Jon wick soloed the entire Fireflies garrison like it was nothing. xD

Critical Hit Koala 2 aylar önce

@Izanagi They were probably used to zerg rushing Zombies and not someone who can take cover and shoot back who actually had the training.

LossyPooh 2 aylar önce

@Izanagi not really Joel had more experience remember he always was a loner, the fireflies were always in a group so their guard & experience was lower.... Eg was when they were walking Joel out he keeps stopping & none of them picked that up... Ik everything is scripted but that how the write portrayed them

Stephan 2 aylar önce

@Izanagi Joel was a soldier like his brother before they were contracters before the collapse. Most of the firefly soldiers seem to be born right before the collapse or after and thus have none of the experience joel has.

Karin Drennan 2 aylar önce

Also I have a question, what happened if they went through with it and the cure didn’t work and Ellie died for nothing?

Carla McNeil 2 aylar önce

Also bear in mind that just because there’s a chance they could find a cure in the cordyceps in Ellie, there’s no certainty. They might kill her and gain nothing.

Shadowman 2 aylar önce

Exactly.

Donna Murphy 2 aylar önce

I think the Fireflies created this situation. They could've explained it fully to Ellie, and if she agreed knowing she would die, then so be it. Or they should've kept Joel knocked out, and when he woke up, tell him Ellie died during surgery.

macfilms 2 aylar önce

It's essentially the Trolley Problem - with parental love (thru a lens of PTSD because Joel couldn't save Sara) thrown in. The Trolly Problem is an ethics question: would you divert an out-of-control trolly car, to kill one person, in order to save five? The father-daughter relationship just complicates an already difficult ethical decision. I'm also in the camp that a) The fireflies probably can't develop a vaccine, especially at scale, in a filthy abandoned hospital and b) if they could, Marlene would definitely weaponize it against FEDRA. Both Joel & Marlene stole Ellie's agency, so they are both in the wrong - but there's no way Marlene would explain "it's a total moonshot whether this will work, I'll withhold the vaccine from FEDRA supporters - and oh, btw, you have to die."

Johnny Outlaw 2 aylar önce

Ellie also feels a responsibility and guilt for everyone who has died since that day in the hospital due to infection. I think Ellie should have been given the choice, which she would have chosen to sacrifice her life for a cure.

Nicholas O'Brien 2 aylar önce

Joel 100% did the right thing and no video essay dork on TRvid will ever convince me otherwise. After 10 years my stance on this has never changed.

Tone Faulcon 2 aylar önce

Worse for this choice, there’s no guarantee that killing Ellie would have provided a cure. She was the best “chance.” Imagine if Joel allowed them to sacrifice Ellie and then there was no cure.

Natalia's home 2 aylar önce

It's not about if he's right or not. It's about what you would do in that situation. I'm with Joel.

Be Happy 2 aylar önce

As a parent there was no other way! You couldn't sacrifice your child for anything!!!! No matter how many people it could have saved. Your parental, mind takes over and ask you want to do is protect your child. No matter the cost!!!

NAICOM 2 aylar önce

From an evolutionary point of view, it looks like life programmed this instinct (protect child so that it can later survives, lives and produce even more life) quite with a rare but major bug, once triggered it just deletes the hole program itself. Maybe it will be revised in the next update

DoorsToHideBehind156 2 aylar önce

I always wonder why Marlene didn't lie to Joel when telling him about Ellie. Instead of telling him "she doesn't know, she will feel no pain" she could have lied and said she agreed to it. Also, if ellie did agree to it, and joel did what he did anyways would people still think he's a hero?

Rexanus 2 aylar önce

Great review. I’m a parent to two young children and the idea that Joel was the villain didn’t even cross my mind. I feel as a parent there is no choice in saving Ellie, although the methods needed some consideration ha ha

Sense 2 aylar önce

Both Joel and Marlene were wrong. They needed Ellie's honest self opinion without anybody's manipulation.

Yusuf Raage 2 aylar önce

Ellie is a kid and an orphan only a guardian can make such decision for her and Joel is the guardian not Marlene.

Sense 2 aylar önce

@Yusuf Raage they're heck no guardian neither Marlene or Joel. They're both betrayers of their own trust and respect. That's the sh*tty world they lived in. A mother figure who's gonna kill Ellie without her knowing and a father figure who kill her hope. They both thought her as their guiding light yet that guiding light was struggling to keep herself bright and they didn't care to lift it up but wanted that light for themselves.

jcaashby3 2 aylar önce

Yea I felt this way for years. They both made choices for her. Both lied to her.

Joshua Nakagawa 2 aylar önce

Watching Joel save Ellie from her saving humanity, I was just thinking how wrong what he was doing was, but deep down, knowing if I was in the same position, I’d do the same. It really it a conflict between instinct and ideology.

leyenda61 2 aylar önce

I think in a scenario like this an even more impossible twist is whether this kid is your biological or one you adopted along the way.

ChefJon 2 aylar önce

This is a big GRAY ending. Brilliant piece of art to appreciate in the decades to come.

ENManX5 2 aylar önce

Completely agree about being a parent. Pretty sure I would have seen Joel as a bad guy before I became a father. I never played the games, only watched the show, but being a father of a 4 year old girl, I would 100% do what Joel did or die trying if it were me and my daughter in the same situation.

Kimberley Jane McNab 2 aylar önce

My daughter and I had a “discussion” about this, my daughter thinking Joel was wrong, me on the other hand disagreeing. Although I do think Joel should have told Ellie the truth!

Clayon Gunzelle 2 aylar önce

I love the music they choose when Joel was killing the fireflies because it wasn'ta moment of triumph but one of betrayal also Ellie days she was afraid of being alone but now Joel is much more afraid of being alone than her I think...

Dash Bracket 2 aylar önce

We're asking from an outside viewpoint if what Joel did was right, but to him he absolutely was. Also in the moment he felt deceived by Marlene.

Alexander Dumas 2 aylar önce

The moment Marlene realized Ellie was immune and her mother indirectly exposed her via bite she should have conducted further experiments and had mothers be bit and cut the umbilical cord at different times to give the babies different doses of the indirect bite to replicate Ellie’s immunity. If she was truly serious about saving humanity she wouldn’t have put all of this on Ellies life alone

Jim Alaska 2 aylar önce

Joel was absolutely right. There was no guarantee that the Fireflies would cure everyone, only those that joined their group, letting the rest of humanity die.

Hey, it’s you, McMuffin 2 aylar önce

I think if the roles were reversed and Ellie found out the cure could only POSSIBLY be made by Joel’s death and I think she would’ve murdered every firefly to save him as well. At the end of the day, it was Ellie’s choice to make. Not Marlenes. Not joels.

Jae Me 2 aylar önce

I think there will be another part of this story for Ellie. I don't think after part 2, her story is over after her last fight with Abby... maybe just that chapter of her life but as other characters of the show mentioned, she is smart and a leader... I think she will become more important than her immunity and maybe there is still a possibility of a cure when she feels it is her time.

Mythical History 2 aylar önce

Joel was right cuz if he hadn't saved her, then we wouldn't have a season 2

munkäyttäjä 2 aylar önce

We would've

chatter 2 aylar önce

a world with vaccines and the conflict and change that brings, playing as heartbroken Joel. would've been a better season 2

El mehdi Ben Hadj 2 aylar önce

I don't think that Joel is oblivious to what he's done. He is perfectly aware it was selfish and out of love . But i also think that if he had the chance , he'd do the same all over again.

Michael Moran 2 aylar önce

In Joel's position, I doubt if one person in a million would make the decision to let Ellie be dissected. From Marlene's position, it's the rational choice. But like you say, The Fireflies getting the vaccine would almost certainly have led to all-out war with FEDRA, so Joel might have inadvertently prevented quite a lot of deaths that way. It seems likely that Ellie would have sacrificed herself for the greater good - but even if she had done, it could well have had terrible unintended consequences.

Nurul Nurul 2 aylar önce

"as a father it's difficult..." when things get too personal(sentiment). It's so difficult to move on I know the feeling of losing the person you love. Let's look at different timeline- let say if Sarah still alive so she's going to this journey with Joel and then one day she got bit by one of the zombie fungus. Joel as a devoted saintly father that would do anything for his daughter decide to haunt Ellie. I wonder what Joel would do to Ellie. He might end up sacrifice Ellie just to see Sarah recover and transform into human once again. In Joel's mind "there's possibility that we can get cure out of Ellie. Think positive,Joel. Be strong for Sarah." It's so easy to hate Marlene, she's the leader-she's meant to be hate. But she's delivered Ellie, this means she attached emotionally to Ellie just like Joel. Marlene could just kill Ellie on the first day but somehow she couldn't do this.

Aguz Rodri 2 aylar önce

As a father of 4, I can tell you I would have done anything to save my kid to all cost

atomic soda 2 aylar önce

He did the only thing we all would do in the same situation. It’s neither right nor wrong. It’s the only thing to do. And Marlene should have given Ellie the choice. She went after her and paid the price.

Emmanuel De Ita 2 aylar önce

I still can’t help but think Joel would have let it happen had Marlene gave him a chance to have some final moments together and todo Ellie straight up what was gonna happen instead of lying

Hypocrite Troll Bot 2 aylar önce

I don’t think for a moment he would’ve let it happen even if they were able to say goodbye. Joel could not and would not allow himself to lose another “child.” If he allowed it, he was also dooming himself to self deleting successfully this time. Imagine Joel allowing it to happen and then Ellie’s sacrifice did not amount to a cure? His new life goal is to execute every firefly in existence.

SolracNexus 2020 2 aylar önce

I feel like we've discussed this 9 years ago and had a general consensus that joel did the right thing, even if it's not intentional

Ann 2 aylar önce

I think Ellie would have forgiven him if he didn't kill Marlene. I would understand if he took her in order to give her the choice later on if she wanted to go through with the surgery or not. But he even took that choice away from her, just like Marlene took the choice away from her. Joel killed Marlene (and most of the Fireflies left at that point) because he didn't want them looking for Ellie in the future. In the end, both Marlene and Joel made the decision based on what THEY wanted, instead of what Ellie wanted.

Taekook Edits SBL 2 aylar önce

I can understand both sides. When it's someone we love, it's very hard to look at the bigger picture. But also, we can't deny that every action has a reaction, and he will have to pay for his choices, the same way he made the fireflies pay for their choices. That's something TLOU forces you to understand, and you can be open to empathize and have a great experience or be petty and complain because you only care about one side of the story. I can't wait for season 2.

Shima Enaga 2 aylar önce

I asked my mom about joel's decision. She said it is the correct one, and she would done the same. There is no absolute certainty to a cure will be create. But it's certain that the child will live long enough to see the future

OccultKing 2 aylar önce

Now imagine you sacrificed your child and they couldn't make the cure. Can't even imagine what that would do to a parent.

Rocky Oliver 2 aylar önce

Marlene is operating on a sense of DUTY, and also believes the ends justify the means. And she took away Ellie's agency because of this. And I agree, the Fireflies with a cure would weaponize it for control. Her sense of duty is also why she's willing to sacrifice a kid SHE raised. There's no love there. Joel is operating on a sense of LOVE. He loves Ellie as her own child. And while he took away her agency as well, it makes more sense to me - it's to protect her when she couldn't protect herself. TLDR: So yeah, I'm on team Joel. Here's why. I'm a father of five healthy, amazing adult children. And as a father I heavily relate to Joel and his feelings towards Ellie. She is, for all intents and purposes now, HIS daughter. And the love you feel for your child is so primal, so intense that it's almost frightening. Most parents I know would scorch the planet for their kids, especially when they're children. Right or wrong, you cannot ask a father to willingly sacrifice their INNOCENT child - and in this case their ONLY child, the only thing that is giving his life purpose - for any reason. Even if it's to save humanity. Is that morally defensible? Well, that's open for debate (and it's probably not, to be honest). But I understand why he made the decision he did. And to be honest, right or wrong, I would have done the same for any one of my kids.

Perceived Velocity 2 aylar önce

I'm a father of three kids and I agree with you 100%. This may sound odd but.... My children are the reason why I participate in society. I couldn't sacrifice one of my children for the greater good of the society as a whole.

asciiavatar 2 aylar önce

That Marlene 'raised' Ellie is not entirely accurate. Ellie was acquianted with Marlene, but Ellie grew up in a FEDRA orphanage. Marlene dumped her off on the very people she came to oppose. Marlene only came back into Ellie's life when Ellie had something to contribute to the cause - possible cure.

Yusuf Raage 2 aylar önce

Marlene never raised Ellie she dumbed her at FEDRA as soon as she came to Boston.

jcaashby3 2 aylar önce

Ellie did not even know WHO Marlene was.

Rocky Oliver 2 aylar önce

@asciiavatar - Good point.

Body Rot 2 aylar önce

I wanted to know if that cure was going to be 110% possible, going to absolutely happen and be affective. Would it do anything for anyone that already fully transformed? Or a preventative measure? If ask those questions were an absolute yes! Then I thought a good ending would have been for Joel to go out with Ellie laying right beside her in the operating room.

Wray62 2 aylar önce

Both Joel and Ellie were willing to risk life and limb to get to the Fireflies and have may very well have made the decision clear headed but no one asked either one of them, particularly Ellie.

Coffee Coder YT 2 aylar önce

The ending definitely divided a lot of people. I'm in the sense that Joe did the right thing because Ellie was never giving the choice of death. If she was then Joe would be in the wrong but she wasn't making Joe correct in saving her

Samuel Mcloving 2 aylar önce

For me, a group who is ready to kill a kid, particularly without his consent, to save other, will always be the villain. No one is entitled to get a cure.

chatter 2 aylar önce

like when joel killed the kid when they were ambushed

Kim M 2 aylar önce

I don't think the point is if Joel was right or wrong, or if he doomed humanity or whatever. I think the story is that we already knew what Joel was going to do, you could see it a mile away given the lengths the two of them went to help and save each other. So the story is about understanding WHY Joel made the choice he did regardless of it was the "right thing" to do. I also think it could have been interesting if Ellie knew she was going to die the whole time and accepted it because of Riley or something, but Joel only find out last minute.

RHOLASE 2 aylar önce

Call it selfishness, but it's the right thing for Joel. He answered it in part 2. It's wrong for humanity, but what would you do if humanity turned its back to you. Just imagine that you live in the world they live in.

James Magnum Aylar önce

I got fascinated by the whole story and the whole life or death dilemmas imposed..Even though not being a father made me think that how Fallout lore was much more comforting for its utopic feature in a cruel dystopic world where no child could ever be harmed in anyway, not ever...kids stayed safe.

Constance Averman 2 aylar önce

THINK ABOUT IT! Is this a classic bioethics dilemma? I could think that this episode concludes the storyline because of her being rescued and because of his finding a child he could love and protect in a way he couldn't do for his own child. I might agree to telling her when he's on his deathbed that she could wait until she has lived her life and as an old woman sacrifice herself to this humanitarian cause. She could then bring hope to any children she had and future generations. Her sacrifice then would be altruistic on her part. I am taking it for granite that science and technology will continue so that this research will be available when she's an old woman. It could also be that he killed off the last scientist in the world who can do such research, but how would he know this? I think she needs to feel loved and wanted just like the rest of us. Can you grow a child just for their tissue, organs and body fluids? I can't! NOTE: Ellie and Joel are not given full disclosure of how her body will be used to access the disease and thus they cannot give "informed consent" to her participation as a human subject used in medical research. Ellie is also a minor with a traumatized brain, and needs guidance to accept that she has human rights to live out her life without the burden of the needs of humanity as defined by the surviving humans that would destroy her life on a small chance that their research will successfully result in a cure or vaccine.

$Wulfrache$

Wulfrache 2 aylar önce

It was handled extremely poorly. Ellie seemed to be willing to do this so they should have just, as a group, talked about it and then nobody needed to die lol. The firefly lady caused all of this by handling this the way she did. She left Joel without a choice since they never gave Ellie a choice.

No Name 2 aylar önce

What bugs me, and I don't see a lot of people pointing it out, is that Ellie can't even decide for herself yet, because she is a child! At least wait till she is 18 to EVEN ASK HER if she wants to sacrifice herself, but as a 14/15 year old, even if she chooses to give her life, she CAN'T, she is too young to make that decision! I think Joel, having taken completely the father role now, did what any parent would do: Protect your child, whether the child likes it or not. So I don't even see it as a gray area, he just did the ONLY thing he could do as the father of a teenager!

Big Sister Neko 2 aylar önce

You're right. Ellie's too young to make such a huge decision (which applies to all of things in today's modern issues), hence the parent has the final say and no one else.

turnerjazz 2 aylar önce

"It's beyond right or not" is dead on. Joel had two terrible options presented to him. There was no right choice available.

StraightUpLazy111 2 aylar önce

Joel was right in regards to actions in hospital. Not right in lying to Ellie.

Aya 🦋 2 aylar önce

period, save me without my permission might fly but killing me without it is fucked up.

ErMacflai 2 aylar önce

no. You people are missing the point of the show completely. There is no right or wrong, just people being selfish.

Ojasva Raj 2 aylar önce

@ErMacflai love is selfish? Sheesh. Wonder what a human without empathy would be? Yes it’s selfish. But I’d rather trust a selfish person capable of loving and protecting something, than a cold altruist capable of killing his child for the good of many.

Aryan Bhuta 2 aylar önce

@Ojasva Raj Joel inflicted misery on millions of men, women, and children, because he couldn't bear to experience emotional pain himself. He condemned millions of fathers to lose their children, spouses to cannibalize each other, and absolute carnage, because he couldn't bear to let one person die. That's not noble. That's not right. And that's cowardice.

Hua C 2 aylar önce

The killing part was a true rage of a father

O T 2 aylar önce

I don't think Ellie wanted a father figure. The whole point is Joel appoints him self that role without her consent. Saving her was for him, not for her.

Chup Smith 2 aylar önce

One question I have related to the 'recap' segment before the show: We hear Joel mention that most infected don't live longer than a couple of months after infection. If that's true, and its been 20 years since Breakout Day, then shouldn't the majority of the infected be dead now? In other words, no hordes of infected, just one of the occasional 10 percent that survived being infected.