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Energy Champions: The CORRECT Way To Design Manaless Champions? | League of Legends

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Having talked about Manaless champions and their potential balance implications, I wanted to make a video analyzing Energy Champions in League of Legends, and if they're the right way to design champions who don't use mana or have an alternative resource.

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18 Ara 2021

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YORUMLAR 468
MarioFRC
MarioFRC 11 aylar önce
Technically, even if Udyr isn't from Ionia, it would still make sense for him to use energy because he trained alongside Lee Sin
Angelo Ferraro
Angelo Ferraro 11 aylar önce
@TitanOfTRvid so make it so he can’t stack tear at all
TitanOfYoutube
TitanOfYoutube 11 aylar önce
@Róbert Enbre the issue with that is that it would require special code for kayn and kayn alone, because manaless champs can still buy tear, they just can't ever stack it. So kayn would need to be the only champ that would not be allowed to build tear AT ALL, which, riot being riot, would probabaly lead to kayn being full of bugs.
Róbert Enbre
Róbert Enbre 11 aylar önce
@TitanOfTRvid "But if base kayn uses mana, it means that can build and possibly upgrade tear items. So what happens with the tear item when kayn gets form and no longer has mana?" Not arguing with anything else but this part of your comment. So Kayn wouldn't be able to keep tear, why let him get tear. Cassio can't buy boots either just cuz they said she won't be able to get boots. Easy as that.
Leandro Peanuts
Leandro Peanuts 11 aylar önce
@Azulan Azul broooooooooo i main kayn and this would be amazing. it would make his skill cieling higher which would be awesome
The Lord of the lost luncheon
@Krzysztof Puterko oh, so I misunderstood them. Well there all dumb then
David Leo
David Leo 11 aylar önce
I think the idea of en energy juggernaut sounds really interesting since juggernauts are defined through their team fight ability etc. Making them play tighter trade windows through the usage of energy sounds very interesting since u have to know when to fight and when not to.
Krzysztof Puterko
Krzysztof Puterko 11 aylar önce
@Quincy or Garen
Quincy
Quincy 11 aylar önce
So you mean something like Sett, but then with the requirement to actually be skilled?
Michael Techuk
Michael Techuk 11 aylar önce
maybe a Ionian drunken master type champ? I understand that we have gragas but hes just a very special drunk dude with some special beer, not like martial arts training
Ben the Bloon
Ben the Bloon 11 aylar önce
I wish more champs had energy, I just enjoy it a lot more as a Shen main
Brau
Brau 11 aylar önce
@Jordan Gibson tf you mean Shen is invincible at all lvls 😩
tacojosh27
tacojosh27 11 aylar önce
Also lemme plug @xPetu on this one. Dude is a wizard and every Shen main should watch his stuff.
tacojosh27
tacojosh27 11 aylar önce
@Jordan Gibson shen is one of the best early game duelists you just have to be patient and use your Q's. Also going anything other then dorans shield unless you're a one trick is trolling.
Ben the Bloon
Ben the Bloon 11 aylar önce
@Vaz G 3
Jordan Gibson
Jordan Gibson 11 aylar önce
@Cubianson no, i bonk you
Totally normal individual
The energy as a whole is one of the most interesting mechanics in the game and we haven't seen energy champion since Zed. Let's hope to see new energy champion in 2022.
Chaosbeing
Chaosbeing 10 aylar önce
Well, i think the reason why Udyr was not a energy champion is that he is a jungler and back then in the old days, blue buff was kinda meaningless on non-mana champs ? I think its something like that. Today there is kinda no reason for him to not be an Energy champion, except because he was a mana champion and it was working properly so why change it. But yeah, energy Udyr makes so much sense.
Darrak
Darrak 11 aylar önce
hope? remove it lol or atleast make them not use whole combi in one energy bar.
Boi Ya
Boi Ya 11 aylar önce
@Gabriel José Ozanan I struggle so much with mana on udyr man if he have passive like lee then it would be great
Gabriel José Ozanan
Gabriel José Ozanan 11 aylar önce
@Ceiling Fan I now really love this concept of Energy Udyr!
Ceiling Fan
Ceiling Fan 11 aylar önce
Praying they rework udyr's kit to require energy now
Gustavo Suarez
Gustavo Suarez 11 aylar önce
Maybe giving energy to Yi is a way to balance him, that way he can't just spam Q after every kill.
N
N 11 aylar önce
@Megatron Do that then we will have tons of random bugs come from nowhere as a bonus.
Megatron
Megatron 11 aylar önce
Also:Getting a kill granting you 28383828282 energy and if you get assist you replenish your energy 2mil a second.
N
N 11 aylar önce
@Einjharr Elraca So your answer to my question that asked whether you can think or not is "No"?
Einjharr Elraca
Einjharr Elraca 11 aylar önce
@N i stand by my statement. yi players dont think.
N
N 11 aylar önce
@Einjharr Elraca Can you think tho. That change, if it happens, it will force them to change their play style and way of thinking, create divisions in skill.
NA
NA 11 aylar önce
I firmly believe and have believed that the lack of a limiting resource like mana/energy is beyond stupid for the balance of spammy champions like kata, riven, viego or even yas and yone to me it just seemed unfair for me to be playing into those matchups trying to manage my mana (for the first 10 mins) while they use abilities on demand
zahando
zahando 9 aylar önce
@NA agreed cause if they made it where if all 3 hit get some energy back and it would want you to auto q auto q better without spamming it
makiiavely
makiiavely 11 aylar önce
The only one out of those whose lack of mana isn't really an issue is Katarina. Her abilities in isolation are pure garbage in numbers, and have no utility whatsoever, it's the resets that are the problem. If she had mana she would feel really akward to play because I'm sure she would run out of it non stop due to her resets. Maybe her resets could give mana back to her? That would be pretty hard to balance. The other guys you mention really are problems. Viego can stun you, turn invisible, become untargetable, execute you, Yone has dashes, shields etc Riven has a shield a stun multiple dashes you get the idea, these champions do really have more shit in their kits than champs with mana with lots of utility just for the sake of being OP, while the problem with Kata is that her damage is absurd and AoE at the same time, not really being able to harass you in lane
Alessio Vitturi
Alessio Vitturi 11 aylar önce
@Bing Diggus *squares up* fight me
Bing Diggus
Bing Diggus 11 aylar önce
@Alessio Vitturi wrong
Alessio Vitturi
Alessio Vitturi 11 aylar önce
@Bing Diggus but if theese champs are balanced why would they need energy/mana? They'd just become new champions? Its like putting renek fury on a mage, why would you do that? Like some champs are designed for mana, some are designed for energy, and some are designed for nothing, you can't complain about theese things, no one would be satisfied.
Voerman
Voerman 11 aylar önce
Lee Sin is the greatest ninja of them all though. When he's on my team, he's nowhere to be seen - which is truly ninja-like and when he's on the enemy team, he's the feared assassin that strikes at night.
Alan Yang
Alan Yang 11 aylar önce
Crazy spammers, like Katarina, should be balanced by energy consumption. Champs who have longer CD like Garen should not. Since they have energy restrictions, the abilities should be stronger. Champs like Aatrox should not though since his cast times are much slower and not loaded. For example, Zed has tons of spam and I notice what holds him back from spamming is only energy usage. Lee gets two iterations of abilities, thus energy is needed
Clemens Flotow
Clemens Flotow 11 aylar önce
For Katarina, a ressource like mana or energy doesnt work, because she has a good amount of abilities when laning and 1v1ing like many others, but she has a lot more abilities to cast when utilizing her resets in teamfights and against multiple opponents, so how could she have a ressource. She would either not be restricted in lane and 1v1s, small fights etc. But then restricted in teamfights. And if she was restricted in lane and smaller fights how should she then be able to utilize her resets in bigger fights
Alessio Vitturi
Alessio Vitturi 11 aylar önce
@BOHOMAZdesign also wtf, the higher elo player know how to counter champs better aswell, and if a champ was that broken it would always get played in solo Q and in pro play (like with fucking graves). But again, we are not talking about stats we are talking about design, graves does not have anything game breaking, nor does katarina. You are the one who brought up winrates, but that really doesn't matter much. I think modt would agree that yone is kuch more broken and obnoxious than katarina or most midlaners, but his winrate as of now is fucking thrash. Should we buff yone a bit? I think the fuck not. Stop watching tierlists all day and go play some games, or you'll end up like riot games. I rest my case.
Alessio Vitturi
Alessio Vitturi 11 aylar önce
@BOHOMAZdesign but kata hasnt recieved a nerf or buff in a lot of time, and her winrates aren't the same every patch. Also we gotta separate "high elo" And pro play. And we have to distinguish master/grand master from challenger. The tier lists are completely different for each (even tho rn we in preseason). Personally i consider high elo just high challenger, and i never said they were bad. Also what does winrate matter in the argument i'm making? We'r talking abiut design and mana/energy, not about stats? My point is that katarina should not have mana, not that she isn't broken in any way. You don't need to come so aggressively and flame a person you don't even know for no reason. I just don't see in any way how kata is broken or obnoxious, she has her strenghts and weaknesses as any balanced champion should have (design wise) i'm not talking about dmg or stats, that's up to riot to take care of. You know as much as me that therr are or were champions that were really overtuned, or that had mechanics that weren't necessary, like akali or samira, and katarina is not one of them, she has one strong mechanic which is resetting abilities and picking up daggers to reset E, which requiers attention and skill, and thats it. She has nothing more than dmg literally. She is stronger in lower elos because the worst the player you are up against (the more reckless he is and the less he knows about katarina's capabilities) the easier it is to set up daggers properly and to get your kills. I never said anything about winrates. As to pro play, it's kind of the way that league should be played, and we can see how champs similar to katarina find no way into that world, so yeah i don't dee how she's over tuned design wise.
Cherno
Cherno 11 aylar önce
@Andi Commodore false aurelion wasn't played by otp only
Andi Commodore
Andi Commodore 11 aylar önce
@Cherno they nerfed Aurelion Sol, cause 1 or 2 people had a too high winrate in Master+. There is never "not enough games played on that champ" as an excuse. Riot clearly just want money from the skins.
apta wibawa
apta wibawa 11 aylar önce
Energy is really interesting resource compare to just straight up resourceless. It basically Mana but you don't have to build mana item. it had similar purpose but with different ups and downs.
Zelorp
Zelorp 11 aylar önce
Isn’t it just… better in every way? You don’t need items for it, it regens very quickly, and most champs that use it have a refund mechanic. All while not limiting their abilities in any way, or even making them better with lower cooldowns.
Marc-Antoine Girard
Marc-Antoine Girard 11 aylar önce
Vars: we shouldn't make auto attackers with energy Also vars: lets make Udyr an energy champion
Fais Faizal
Fais Faizal 11 aylar önce
Meanwhile Shen just bonking you to death
MANDRO
MANDRO 11 aylar önce
Energy Champions seem like a solution to a problem Riot made themselves by making Manaless Champions
Erabu kun
Erabu kun 11 aylar önce
At it seems they forgot about it after they created after creating Yasuo
Chincer
Chincer 11 aylar önce
One thing about manaless champions, gnar rage serves very well as a restriction, the fact he will transform with very little you can do about it sometimes serve to limit the fact he doesn't use Mana. We need a marksman with energy. Just make him a true caster that can't attack but who's Q serves as his damage, like ezreal Q with a whole new kit around it
Pizzi
Pizzi 11 aylar önce
@Chincer Ohhh, wait. my bad. I thought you meant mana for some reason
Chincer
Chincer 11 aylar önce
@Pizzi you mean that marksman that uses Mana, get bonuses to their attack range and speed and is a jungler. Yeah not what I have I mind
Pizzi
Pizzi 11 aylar önce
it's called Kindred
MrMakoto2
MrMakoto2 11 aylar önce
A marksman that can't attack is at that point no longer a marksman, just a really bad mage with AD scaling
AmmA AmmO
AmmA AmmO 11 aylar önce
can you call them a marksman at that point? sounds more like cassio/ryze type of stuff
Ignas Lekarevičius
Ignas Lekarevičius 11 aylar önce
I played shen for a good time when i started(i magically got the pulsefire shen skin) and i bought faerie charms trying to increase my energy regen XD
ForTheLoveOfGodLaugh
ForTheLoveOfGodLaugh 11 aylar önce
Energy is a good mechanic for limiting burst potential since the only way to restore Energy is PoM, which means you lose out on other potential runes. Katerina needs energy, no reason she should have zero resources
ŁastŁotus
ŁastŁotus 11 aylar önce
@The Best Bilbo i think we're just using the term "burst" in a different way. I understand burst as dmg you deal with a combo of all your abilities not including usimg the same ability twice after the cooldown is up again. This isn't limited by energy since the way energy is used allows you to use all your abilities once before you have to worry about not having enough energy.
The Best Bilbo
The Best Bilbo 11 aylar önce
@ŁastŁotus you fought against your own argument. Energy, as a resource, limits burst. You are talking about the champion design, which isn't energy itself. In fact, energy is used to limit what they can do in a prolonged period and forces them to wait for the right amount of energy for their burst. Aka: limits bursting potential. The fact is that you can feel the effects with any number of changes to the resource itself. Imagine Zed with twice the energy. Absolutely broken, with bursting now being so high that it's hard to punish him after a combo and giving him a significant amount of extra dueling power. Now let's do the inverse and half it. Unless all energy costs are lowered accordingly, Zed is now useless. Energy, as a resource, is about limiting short term potential, without limiting long term potential (which is why the pool is limited, but the revenue is high). The fact that Energy is attached to high burst champions proven it acts as a limitation, and a damn good one. A concept that, without energy, wouldn't be allowed to be in game. Energy=short term limitation, Mana=long term limitation. That's how the design is, and has proven effective. I just think Energy, as a resource, is underused by Riot.
ŁastŁotus
ŁastŁotus 11 aylar önce
@The Best Bilbo well yes and no. Mostly no. Energy based champs are designed to have enough energy for one combo of basic abilities, which is their burst. The energy really only limits their dps. Energy champs tend to have really low cds, which makes them so op once they don't have to worry about energy anymore. And btw Mana is most often just riots way of balancing lane. Which is why champs like kata don't need mana, since they have other issues in lane and they never have any sort of sustainable poke. Imagine a poke mage not having mana that would be stupid. (Vlad, gnar, kennen are the only ranged manaless champs and they all tend to be toplaners btw)
The Best Bilbo
The Best Bilbo 11 aylar önce
@Cherno energy limits damage, by giving a small pool of resource that generates quickly. In other words: limits short term use. Aka Burst. Its why Energy Champs in URF are are insanely strong. Energy is a burst limiter, because the champion is made to burst. Give them same champions the same numbers but make them based on Mana, their burst becomes dead flat toxic. So yes, Energy limits burst by quite a bit.
Cherno
Cherno 11 aylar önce
@The Best Bilbo energy doesn't limit burst it's the opposite energy champ have lower cooldowns which gives them higher burst
Nicholas
Nicholas 11 aylar önce
“Dangerous to put big aoe damage on a mana less or energy champion” Kennen: let me introduce myself.
Aaron Wilbers
Aaron Wilbers 11 aylar önce
First, I would enjoy an Udyr mini-rework that gave him energy instead of mana; his current passive incentivizes switching between stances during gameplay, but with mana he will eventually run out without a Tear item that only gives him mana and one stat. Only thing is that the persistent effect also triggers on the first hit after activation, though that might incentivize him to be played more aggressively. Second, as far as energy mages go, I agree burst mages might be a bad idea, but what about artillery mages or battle mages?
Mozzy
Mozzy 11 aylar önce
I think Wukong and Yi definitely could be energy champs and might honestly be better as energy champs. However, Karma is a full blown mage so I think mana fits her better.
Zihan Zhu
Zihan Zhu 11 aylar önce
This might be far-fetched but I have a slight suspicion that the upcoming marksman will be energy based. They teased a lot about it in the champion roadmap.
Luiz Felipe Franco Gomes
Theoretically, Yuumy is a mana champ that has the properties of energy champ, her passive and E has fixed percentage mana stats, she can't benefit to much from stacking mana, and pls riot fix the client and the game
Johangel Rodríguez
Johangel Rodríguez 11 aylar önce
Ya know, I've allways wanted Kayn to use energy because he is Zed's -son- star student
Paweł Pająk
Paweł Pająk 11 aylar önce
@Goatnoodles runes like timewarp tonic, biscuits and items like tear are moving him into the toplane
Goatnoodles
Goatnoodles 11 aylar önce
sadly he is balanced around mana so he wont go into lane, but riot IS moving him to the toplane
Florian Knauer
Florian Knauer 11 aylar önce
Energy on a support is totally fine in principle. Just make the cost high enough and give them a active/risky option to gain energy, like auto-attacking champions, hitting them with skill-shots or staying very close to an ally.
Stefano Becchini
Stefano Becchini 11 aylar önce
gotta love how every energy champion has a situational condition to restore energy via abilities but akali can just press W
Edd e
Edd e 11 aylar önce
Energy Juggernaut sounds cool, don't think it would be that limiting though since they already have other, bigger limitations
death taco
death taco 11 aylar önce
I like the idea of an energy bot laner. And I think there's a good chance of it with one of the new champion also being form ionea
James Garrison
James Garrison 11 aylar önce
Just my humble opinion: Energy should be renamed to ki/chi depending on the localization. Fits better thematically and is more distinct from the Fury resource (aside from their obvious differences mechanically).
Sebastian LaPlume
Sebastian LaPlume 11 aylar önce
As someone who was able to pick up most every hard champ (azir, Asol, gp, zed, sylas, etc) in the game in a couple games, rework vlad. He’s the only champ that in 10 or more games I haven’t started rolling lobbies on, you have to exclusively play vlad, and I mean hundreds of games, to know his limits into each matchup at each level and the only way he’s good, is if you know limits perfectly. Even less friendly then Asol when it comes to not one tricking him.
Dr.A alnajery
Dr.A alnajery 11 aylar önce
There is a chance that udyr will be the latest energy champ . We won’t have to wait long to know as his rework is just around the corner
Kulpy Kulptington
Kulpy Kulptington 11 aylar önce
I always hated Zed specifically because he uses energy. As stated in the video, mana is the way to balance skirmishers. Problem is, Zed is a really good all in champion with two build in escapes. Consequently, with these good escapes and no long-term resource to manage, there is absolutely nothing stopping Zed from dumping his entire kit whenever it's up nearly for free. His W means he never needs to commit to anything, period. His ult is his only ability that requires him to get into melee range when he exits, but it's still pretty easy to get out. This makes him a de facto skirmisher who never needs to resource manage. Meta permitting, he is my permanent ban in the mid lane.
Diego Hernandez
Diego Hernandez 11 aylar önce
In theory mana is suposed to limit you, but riot keep on giving everyone means to get mana regen.I cannot think of a champ other than syndra or tear champs that runs out of mana in lane, so I don't see the point for mana in champs like qiyana or ekko who can cast full rotations of spells multiple times with 5% mana
zandrom ex
zandrom ex 11 aylar önce
The problem is that they just keep on removing mana items. We used to have Morello and Athene´s. Now only enchanters get access to mana regeneration, and mages only get two mana items: the mythic and seraph´s. So they have to give everyone insane mana stats just to function without those items they do not have. I´d much rather have actual options in terms of mana than just bruteforce stats into my champions. It´d also be an actual balance lever to gatekeep mages from spilling into assassin´s items and viceversa, which is the problem Riot keeps bringing up so they can refuse to create actual ap itemization.
MajinMatt
MajinMatt 11 aylar önce
I think Energy is a decent mechanic, but I also think it's proven over the years to have a lot of problems. Calling it only a coincidence that 4/5 of the champions who use Energy have been balance nightmares for years, in large part because they have the long term consistency that Mana Champions lack. Playing against Energy champs as a Mana Champion still feels awful most of the time, cause they almost always have shorter cooldowns than you, their abilities get more forgiving as they level up, and every single one of them has frustrating mechanics to play against. Having Mana is a downside as much as it is an upside, and Energy while great in theory, has created a lot of balance problems because it can be restored so quickly compared to Mana. At Level 3, your combo is gonna leave you missing 30-50% of your mana depending on the Champion. Toss one one trade and now you have no combo. Energy Champions not only get their full combo that first time, have an ability for a trade, and then have their full combo for the 2nd fight, and the Mana Champion can't do anything but sit there and watch, much the same as a Manaless champion. tldr - Energy causes a lot of issues, and I think it's good that they're not trying to force it into the game. I dislike it because in a lot of cases it's a dishonest limitation because they'll have their combo back up by the time you're trying to fight again. It's preferable to Manaless Champions, but it has a ton of issues as well, if they release another Energy champion then I only hope they make them better than any of the others (Except Shen, Shen's pretty cool)
gibarel
gibarel 11 aylar önce
Imagine a champion who's cost is time, like HotS deathwing, whenever you cast a skill you are committed to it and can't stop the long animations, you also need skill since none of his skill deal damage at the start.
zahando
zahando 9 aylar önce
I mean aatrox is kinda like that with long animations on his q, it will hurt but it’s more like a boss battle feel cause of it
Erabu kun
Erabu kun 11 aylar önce
"Committed to skill cast time".. try telling that to a Riven main
gibarel
gibarel 11 aylar önce
@Max" doesn't allow skill expression outside of game knowledge and macro" sounds a lot like TF if ask me.
Max
Max 11 aylar önce
@gibarel Yeah thats what's cancer, playing the champ. I believe a big part of the League community has realized that the tempo of the game has been steadily increasing over the years. Having a guy who locks himself in place or forces himself to target an area after a delay, makes the champ heavily telegraphed and doesn't allow that much skill expression outside of sheer game knowledge and macro. You're basically forcing your entire team to play around the fact that you can't land anything unless they CC the enemies first, so he's ultra raidboss or the worst champ in the game.
gibarel
gibarel 11 aylar önce
@Amaterasuchan we gave uncencelabe animations in some champs, and some of them are pretty bad, like illaoi. And he does not 100 to 0 you quick, in HotS He has a brief stun, 1 AOE "burst" skill and 1 AOE DOT that he need to stand still to use(think vel'koz ult but can't change direction). Plus the fact that he can't be healed and would be absolutely melted by champs like maybe, kog and trundle.
Hecatia666
Hecatia666 11 aylar önce
A Juggernaut with energy as resource would be very interesting!
Chrono
Chrono 11 aylar önce
Idk if this was the case but ekko might have been an energy champion during development but the Q made it so that he couldn’t be because it would be infinite shoving in midlane, it would make sense because god knows why his ult didn’t cost any mana on release
Starsline
Starsline 11 aylar önce
I liked the point where you mentioned ability haste. If they were costless or mana champions you would be able to build alot of ability haste on zed, akali or kennen and just spam the everliving shit out of your abilities. Max ability haste akali sounds especially bad
Sean Smith
Sean Smith 11 aylar önce
All champions should work with mana, then have a secondary energy bar when and where needed. Nearly all energy champions are hard to balance.
NanashiAlfarr
NanashiAlfarr 11 aylar önce
I would love to see a enchanter sup that uses energy, but I know it would be trash because riot loves bruisers and assassins and hates enchanters and adcs.
5 Volt
5 Volt 11 aylar önce
I wonder if there will ever be another energy champ. Hasn't been one since Zed and he came out in S3...
Zerty F7
Zerty F7 10 aylar önce
I tried to make fan-reworks for an energy adc , ignoring lore I think my best atempts are: -Varus , make his CD shorter put high energy cost on them and ad energy refunds when he pop blight stacks (based on how many) -Samira not much to do, her Q is similar in usage to akali's Q (realy short cd main damaging spell ) so give it a high early cost, for W and E and give them a 30 to 40 cost. She regain energy based on her style rank. Aphelios a really unique take on energy where it works almost like a reverse rumble heat mechanic , each auto consumes energy shared for both weapons you wield , reach 0 energy changes your on hand weapon and refounds you half your max energy. I didnt made the numbers yet but it would be like , just last hitting you can keep the weapon indefinitely ,playing normaly or fighting but with low atk speed will give your weapons the same up time they curently have but pushing too hard or with too much atk speed ,you quickly change weapons . Bring down the dmg on his spell in favor of a shorter CD (also create a way for him to use the gravitum spell out of combat) give it a huge energy cost (around 80) . This rework in my opinion gives Aphelios a smoother gameplay , spamming your spell in lane our out of combat to get to the weapons you want dont leaves you OOM and useless for long because energy regenenerate much faster . Spamming spells in combat gives you a higher dps but will leave you with a sub optimal weapon combination much faster than in his current form
Quiver The Protogen
Quiver The Protogen 11 aylar önce
Energy has a ton of untapped potential. I feel like it isn't impossible to make other classes of champions that could work with it. Xayah for example is a champion that for a very long time, was night and day with Essence Reaver. Before it, you couldn't use abilities often because her mana pool is extremely restrictive, and that's including the fact that it's difficult for her to force situations where her abilities even become useful. After Essence Reaver, she became a champion because her abilities weren't very impactful at all outside of her ideal circumstance, but she finally had the mana to afford using them for something other than trying to survive or trying to catch. She could afford to consistently poke or shove waves, or even just set up feathers for zoning. I feel like if her E was given a slightly higher cooldown, feathers stayed on the ground for a pinch longer, her Q damage was reduced, and maybe her w given a shorter cooldown and also shorter duration (not sure about that, but it's an idea to consider,) she could be made an energy champion. Rakan might also make the cut with the same sorts of changes, where his E has a high energy cost, his Q heals for less, and something gives him an energy refund would work for him. He already has almost no mana troubles at all, all things considered. I don't think I've ever seen a Rakan forced to base by mana when they're not also below 100 hp.
IamMe
IamMe 11 aylar önce
Which would also make Udyr more balanced cause then he can't just run around the entire map with a shield on all the time cause he has a blue and like 2k mana
último controle
último controle 11 aylar önce
An enchanter with energy could work like, small and regular shields
Icigs
Icigs 11 aylar önce
I think talon could be a good option for energy using, actually his kit has low mana waste so is like if he was already a manaless champ and it could be possible to implement the energy restoration in his passive or jumps, in fact it could be possible to remove the individual jump's cd for each wall and replace it with energy waste, so if he jumps twice the same piece of wall he waste more energy but if he jumps different walls each time it cost less or even it recover energy.
Zion
Zion 11 aylar önce
Im sure Qiyana could be reworked into an Energy Champion
Noob Jitsu
Noob Jitsu 11 aylar önce
I would love that!
Zion
Zion 11 aylar önce
@Vexacion there should really be some Assassin mana items, aswell as a QSS AP item. It‘s time riot
Vexacion
Vexacion 11 aylar önce
@Zion I agree that she's in a weird spot, but not having mana would be an insane buff to her in basically every way. Early game the main thing stopping Qiyana from being uncounterable and spiralling out of control is mana
5 Volt
5 Volt 11 aylar önce
Energy champ that isn't from Ionia? Wait that's illegal.
Zion
Zion 11 aylar önce
@Vexacion it would make much more sense tho, as every other assassin she‘d be strong early but gets weaker lategame, right now she is an assassin in a very weird spot lets be honest
Christopher Moody
Christopher Moody 11 aylar önce
idc if its energy or rage or a new resource, i just want more alternatives to mana
Austin Weber
Austin Weber 11 aylar önce
Riven would be a good energy champion, given she went to live in Ionia to repent and help them rebuild and face her guilt. She’s already manaless. All basic ability casts would cost 40, making all 5 casts use up the 200 energy. Obv, her ult would have no cost. And her passive for weaving autos could refund 30, so she could refund 150 on a full rotation, if done correctly. Meanwhile since her full rotation is 200, it still means newer players to her can still do a full rotation, but won’t be as efficient. It could also be a huge lore moment for her, showing just how far she’s come on her path towards redemption, and having left Noxus behind.
Big Musk
Big Musk 11 aylar önce
Yeah agree
Kit Kup
Kit Kup 10 aylar önce
I think Energy is way better than manaless, it takes skill and experience to play them. Really want to see more of them.
aleks
aleks 11 aylar önce
As an akali main i love energy a lot, i feel like its such a skillful mechanic and just the managing of it takes a lot of skill since most energy champion have a spammable ability (5 points strike in my case) that can make u run out of mana pretty fast
Zelorp
Zelorp 11 aylar önce
Who would’ve thought the play style of “I can hit you all I want and you can’t hit me” would be fun? Seriously, that champ is the worst design imaginable in a multiplayer game.
aleks
aleks 11 aylar önce
@Quincy by far best champion ever i tried more than 100 champions and no one comes close to giving me the fun and the desire to come back to it like akali does. Flawless desigm in terms of enjoyment literally
Quincy
Quincy 11 aylar önce
Openly admitting to be an Akali main? You sure are brave lmao
Luna Xavier
Luna Xavier 11 aylar önce
Crazy as it sounds, I always think Samira should have been a energy champion
Sebastian LaPlume
Sebastian LaPlume 11 aylar önce
An energy control mage would be interesting, I think Syndra needs a rework to push her away from karthus’s style, she definitely doesn’t feel like control mage as is. Azir could also be an energy champion without much issue.
viktor mizak
viktor mizak 11 aylar önce
i think an energy enchanter is possible as long as their a buff enchanter or deisigned to more easily top off health pools but have a hard time against burst so a patch healing enchanter instead of a burst healing enchanter.
FunnyGoose
FunnyGoose 11 aylar önce
I think energy is such an untapped idea that coould become something incredible. Hope we see at least 1 energy champ next year
OuchNesston
OuchNesston 11 aylar önce
I think Kayn should also be an energy champion, it makes a lot of sense considering that he's Zed's student.
LoK
LoK 11 aylar önce
@Mattia Gambaro this. Also i think it has to do that rhaast is still using Kayn's body. Meanwhile Aatrox... Well, aatrox is essentially using a couple hundreds of bodies to sustain his current body while also burning to hell and back his first one. If that body can even have mana or energy, aatrox might aswell have caught Atreus or something.
Zelorp
Zelorp 11 aylar önce
Varus uses mana, so…
Mattia Gambaro
Mattia Gambaro 11 aylar önce
Imo it should have energy in the basic form and in the assassin one, and they should give rhaast something else, or nothing, aatrox don't use mana so why should he do?
raistlinmajere1000
raistlinmajere1000 11 aylar önce
Maybe the new marksmen works with energy or a refilling passive to use auto attacks non stop till he runs out of it.
Xenocheeze
Xenocheeze 11 aylar önce
While she is completely unrelated to Ionia in any way, the way Samira plays makes me think that she's a champion who could use energy very well. Just make her refund mechanic something like landing a melee range q or blocking a projectile with w and then bam, instant energy champ
PassokaMix
PassokaMix 11 aylar önce
I think Riven should have energy. She has too much mobility to run from danger without any cost, making it pretty frustrating to fight against, and if she refunds the energy with her passive, she would be the same on the agressive, while not being able to escape as much
Ramiro Gadano
Ramiro Gadano 11 aylar önce
Hey Vars, would you consider doing some premade team orianted video? Something like comps and things to abuse when you are playing with your friends and are able to voice chat
Ery Almario
Ery Almario 11 aylar önce
I'd rather you watch LS
ragudooru
ragudooru 11 aylar önce
Every champion needs a secondary resource to manage. Whether it's mana, energy, Grit, Rage, or even your abilities costing health, whatever have you - if you're limited only by your cooldowns, then you should be ashamed to call yourself a champion. And I will not accept any exceptions to that rule. I still don't understand why Riot thinks having no secondary resource is a healthy idea.
dawidlol1337
dawidlol1337 11 aylar önce
The reasons for why Syndra doesn't have energy costs makes me think why they made Zed an energy champion... doing a full rotation from safety just to do it 15 seconds later... sounds familiar... also dirk items are perfectly balanced
d i
d i 11 aylar önce
i think they could rework master yi and wukong to be energy champions, but master would need a lot of changing to do that
SangoProductions213
SangoProductions213 11 aylar önce
Too bad almost all energy users don't actually care about the concept of having "limited casts in a short time frame"... because they can still simply burst you with their entire kit and still end up 2 screens away at the end of it.
Shuman Beans
Shuman Beans 10 aylar önce
@SangoProductions213 I can't figure out why I wrote that comment. I was either trying to respond to someone else or I missed your point. Either way I'm deleting it.
Mono maguinho
Mono maguinho 10 aylar önce
@SangoProductions213 Don't even listen to that idiot, he thinks using stopwatch and flash is an outplay. Doesn't have his summ for 5 minutes, but he really outplayed that Zed. Lmao.
Cayotics Gaming
Cayotics Gaming 11 aylar önce
@SangoProductions213 If you noticed I said that is how it sounded like what you meant when you said what you said, I didn't say that is what you said I said that is what you sounded like you were getting at and my answer is no energy champs wait on their energy not their cooldowns, because if my cooldowns were the only thing limiting me I could do way more, way easier with Zed, energy cripples energy based champs heavily that is my answer in the simplest way I coulda made it mate here ya go, Energy cripples energy champs and does it's job
SangoProductions213
SangoProductions213 11 aylar önce
@Cayotics Gaming It may be useful to look at what was said rather than trying to shove words into other peoples' mouths, and then responding to what you claim someone else said. I never said anything about mana champions in my post. Do you argue that it is not true that most energy users cannot do their full burst, and then end up 2 screens away? If not: Then I am correct, they don't care about the concept of "limited casts with energy" because they just do their entire deal anyway, and they just wait on CDs, not energy. If so: Then you are wrong and should feel bad. But there's at least something to discuss, rather than claiming I said no mana champion could burst anyone. Which is also wrong.
Cayotics Gaming
Cayotics Gaming 11 aylar önce
@SangoProductions213 the point behind the mlaz qss comment is getting the gold and building it before he hits 6 and just does the combo before you have it, that was the point behind what I said, I never said never build/ buy it, and if you first build it you are setting yourself overall behind just to not die to malzahar in lane which is why no one first builds that item, especially if you are playing an AP champ where nothing qss builds into is an item an AP champ can use, also your main comment commented on the energy champs bursting you with a full combo then ending up screens away from you. That was literally what you said I just pointed out that mana champs do that as well that was all bud, I don't think it was that hard to understand, you just made it sound like as if only energy champs can do that when there are mana champs that can do the same thing more often and easier, that is literally all I was talking about in response to what you said
Maverick Taylor
Maverick Taylor 11 aylar önce
I feel like it might be possible to make riven use enegy, and make her passive restore it so people can't mindlessly spam.
The Lord of the lost luncheon
I wonder if riot will ever add a energy support character. There's a character from heroes of the storm called *lt. Morales* that use to have mana until they reworked her so now she has energy, that really increased how long she could stay in Lane before having to reset. (Tl:rd, riot should make an energy based support)
Ivan The Terrible
Ivan The Terrible 11 aylar önce
I think there should be way more energy champions than there are currently, just like you said, i would love to see an energy based juggernaut rather than a full manaless one, juggernauts run out of mana in the laning phase all too often, i think at least one or 2 energy champs to the class would be a good addition
connn17
connn17 11 aylar önce
I have no clue how it would work but kayn should be an energy champ cuz he trained under zed
Francesco Gnerre
Francesco Gnerre 11 aylar önce
I would love to see an energy marksman
Arrow 3z
Arrow 3z 11 aylar önce
Can you please talk about true damage champions (champions that deals true damage).
Germán Costabel
Germán Costabel 11 aylar önce
One thing to note. Mana serves a big purpose after getting your mythic for mana champions. And that is to gate wave clearing and wave management. Sure if i'm playing Orianna i'm not likely to run out of mana during a team fight. But if we add having to hold a siege for a few waves now things aren't looking that good unless i got blue buff. Mana gates how long a mage can hold a siege and how long can it stays on the map. If mana wasn't a problem after min 15 then a lot of mages would be way stronger.
Lucas S Coelho
Lucas S Coelho 11 aylar önce
Sadly it doesn't even feel like it impacts the champion's usage of spells... excluding a low level akali or a shen that's chasing/being chased and can't auto attack anything, none of the energy champions feel like they're gated behind a resource. Lee can full combo without worrying about running out, Zed doesn't even need all his spells to kill you tbh
VLTRA VIOLENCE
VLTRA VIOLENCE 11 aylar önce
Riot team: didnt we have champs that use other than mana? Riot team: just make the next champ manaless
Simospeed30
Simospeed30 11 aylar önce
What about Riven, if she was an energy champion, I believe she could be more skillful, and reward better Riven champions, but also there's also the possibility that it pushes away people from the champion. I'd like to think Riven's energy restoration would be similar to Lee Sin where she recovers a portion of it by auto attacking while her passive is up. There's a lot to change to balance her out with energy though, but I would like Riot to try this in PBE as a quick idea. She is also a Ionian champion after being exiled from Noxus.
Jaey
Jaey 11 aylar önce
riven is already one of the hardest champions in the game
Philipp Mayenburg
Philipp Mayenburg 11 aylar önce
I love energy. Please give us more energy champions
Nombre / Name
Nombre / Name 11 aylar önce
What you say about mana champions being able to never run out is completely true. Any mana jungler can smap their abilities as long as they have a blue buff.
Błażej Pawlak
Błażej Pawlak 11 aylar önce
Personally I always felt like Sett was supposed to have energy but something went wrong
Penguiking
Penguiking 11 aylar önce
@Faziu Faziowski and has no forms of poke, he literally just runs at you.
Wilson Lee
Wilson Lee 11 aylar önce
Sett doesnt matter. If he has enough energy to rotate 1combo. Then it doesnt matter if he had energy or lot. All of his skills except of Q has almost 8s and above CD
Faziu Faziowski
Faziu Faziowski 11 aylar önce
No, because sett has high CD's and doesnt apply same properties as akali, zed and kennen
Peschionator
Peschionator 11 aylar önce
Rumble's ressource is the most interesting and flavourful ressource in the game and it's sad that nothing that has been released in the last few years that even tries to think outside the idea of mana or ressourceless champs. The only thing I can think of now are these "3rd level ressource bars" like Irelia passive, Gwen Q or Corki R (or Sett W), but I can hardly call those a ressource, more like an indicator of power windows. I really hope that Riot releases a champ with an interesting twist on a ressource, like a champ that needs to gather a ressource by auto attacking to cast most of his kit. Riot teased an electric ADC, it would be cool if he uses autos to charge himself up to cast strong abilities that he cant use when he hasnt charged himself up before. Similarly Vlad could be reworked that his E damage depends on his Q stacks, it's much more flavourful and forces him to set up a combo before he can delete anyone
Zelorp
Zelorp 11 aylar önce
Eh… I kinda feel like it’s just more BS. In theory, mana champions have to expend a resource to do things, while manaless champions don’t but have some sort of other draw back (longer cooldowns on most abilities comes to mind). But energy champions don’t have either drawback. They expend a resource to have better abilities, with very low cooldowns most of the time, and they don’t need to build mana items or regen, but get their resource back faster anyway, and most even have built in energy refunds in their kits.
chillmadude
chillmadude 11 aylar önce
i wouldnt call energy champs manaless, because energy is and always has been mana with a different flavor
Herrscher killer
Herrscher killer 11 aylar önce
I tought it was for ninjas too, until i tought at all the champions that use it and took Lee'Sin out of it. So looking at what ninjas and monks have in comon, we can see they're all martial artists. So, the martial artists are the ones to use energy. At least that's my point of view.
victor ruiz
victor ruiz 11 aylar önce
Sadly a rioter just said that they aren't going to make any other energy user champ, since apparently they are so difficult to balance :c
Павло
Павло 11 aylar önce
There are some energy marksmen in mobile copy of League (Kimmy and Lesley). And one of them have unique type of autoattacks which probably will have that new mm in 2022.
Drake Panther
Drake Panther 11 aylar önce
Yordl should use energy i mean they are spirit it would make teemo/vex less broken and champ like POPPY more consistent
the Soulairien
the Soulairien 11 aylar önce
They could make an energy enchanter where the more you use your abilities on the same target, The less efficient it would be. That way it would be forced to roam to have a significant impact, solving the problem of staying indefinitly in lane
Bl4ckDr4co
Bl4ckDr4co 11 aylar önce
Enchanters don't roam because they are squishy, don't usually have hard CC, and don't usually have means of escape if they are caught. Enchanters being unable to roam is a weakness, not a strength, so making an enchanter that was forced to roam would just make them even weaker.
Eme Pluvio
Eme Pluvio 11 aylar önce
Yone should be reworked to become an energy champ so he doesnt spam shit so often x) thanks for the video
Tigger Bane
Tigger Bane 11 aylar önce
In my opinion energy is just mana by a different name. They really shouldn't count as manaless champions sure it's rapidly recharging mana but the thing still gates in the same way as mana. Unlike something like fury.
Kong Cha
Kong Cha 11 aylar önce
I don't know if they still do it, but there was an old unique interaction between Ninja's where you lost 1 energy per ninja on your team other than yourself.
Erabu kun
Erabu kun 11 aylar önce
I stand on my opinion that manaless champions should be punished alot more by cdr and have to loss damage in favour of it. What I mainly trying to say is that the windshitter bros are by design alone broken af.
Vo 1ce
Vo 1ce 11 aylar önce
Vars : I think I forgot something Viewer : if you forgot, then it wasn't important Vars :yeah,you right................. Hold up, wait a minute ( loaded His D-eagel and start shooting Yone head again) The entire Yone Subredits : stop he already dead
Vitty599
Vitty599 11 aylar önce
Idk why they don't just halve Shen's Energy costs, refunds and maximum energy. I think there is no point in having double the maximum energy but basically doubled costs
HQ Huy
HQ Huy 11 aylar önce
udyr rework if made into energy champion would be really cool, but i can't see a world where they would make him popular without giving him A a ton of stats like now or B tons of passives and dashes. Really sad, but it's true
Pablo
Pablo 11 aylar önce
Akali's energy refund on her passive was not technically removed because it was too consistent, it was removed because it created a too big of a skill gap between bad to average and great players, the champion is already too hard to be balanced properly at all elos and to make her viable in lower elos with her passive refund she would basically be a spam machine in the hands of great players
UsersLoL9880 ·
UsersLoL9880 · 11 aylar önce
I never really care about any energy Champion becouse of the skill cap they required (expecialy Lee sin) but I thing is a really good resurces to use. And I thing Udyr can be a really good usage of that like you mentioned but seeing the list of champion I think Riot did everything soo each champion is really depended on his cost/non cost with the exept of Yone that is a copy cat of Yasuo for some reason.. Even if before he was released we know that only Yasuo can use the Wind tecnique but Yone you it too soo... Yea it does not make really sense... In the future if they realise a new energy championor a new cost I would love too try it out... For sure it will not be with the next 3 champion becouse the marksmiten use electricity and they are focused on his auto meccanic, the next one will be a Chembaron from Zaun and related too gold and mind control(?) and the last one will come for the preaty much comfirmed Void event with a new (maibe female) VoidBorn along side the secret rework (spoiler is Spawn from Spider-Man). But maybe 2023 will have some new good stuff.
ingamrvr
ingamrvr 11 aylar önce
I'd rather see more energy champs than manaless champions, because manaless champions don't always even have long cooldowns...
Mehtab Singh
Mehtab Singh 11 aylar önce
If we r to change champs to energy based, thoughts on camille in terms of balancing?
Kyriakos 02
Kyriakos 02 11 aylar önce
Can you imagine if Master Yi couldn't just spam Q? How wonderful the game would become?
Alex
Alex 11 aylar önce
He would have a energy refund on take down on his ult.
Shacolin
Shacolin 11 aylar önce
Well, if I'm not mistaken, Yi, Karma and Wukong are all older than Zed and by the time Zed got released, league's lore was very different.
popi po
popi po 11 aylar önce
Altough the whole "stay in lane forever" is true and energy champs don't have to go back for mana, they still have to go back and spend some gold, no matter how spammable your habilities are, you are not gonna win against an enemy with his mythic if all you have is doran
xenxenxena
xenxenxena 11 aylar önce
The first energy champion I played was Shen and I really enjoyed energy over mana. Especially being a complete noob at that time that didnt understand what runes or items did. I clearly saw how I spent more energy in an all in than mana but at the same time it was regenerating quick enough so I could try engaging again. It allowed me to learn the champion and laning while not excluding the resource management completely out of the equation. Completely resourceless champions dont make much sense to me, especially when they have things like wind wall in their kit which literally renders half of the existing champions useless in a teamfight for free. (windbros are honestly their own category of bs for me)
Shuman Beans
Shuman Beans 11 aylar önce
Windwall is nasty but I feel Yasuo's Q, E and R are conditional enough to keep him balanced. Adding resource management on top of those restrictions might be too much.
Sakutaro〈3musik
Sakutaro〈3musik 11 aylar önce
QOTD: No Energie Champs please, the reason riot didn´t made more is because they are broken, all 5 energie champs are strong and picked like every 2nd game, if they add 5 more we will have only energie champs in every game for sure
Hee Hee
Hee Hee 11 aylar önce
Ironically, i think manaless ap champs were hurt, or at least didn’t benefit as much, from the s11 item changes. Imagine a vlad with everfrost or crown
Nushia
Nushia 11 aylar önce
They should have used energy mechanic on other champions that do not use any resource.
Treziil
Treziil 11 aylar önce
Change my (presence of) mind: Its op on every energy user :) Lee sin main btw
Andrew Swingle
Andrew Swingle 11 aylar önce
Vars whenever I keep watching ur videos late at night I never sleep cause I stay too engaged lmao. Keep up the good videos
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