A.I. Versus The Law

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Sorry, occupational hazard: This is not legal advice, nor can I give you legal advice. I AM NOT YOUR LAWYER. Sorry! Everything here is for informational purposes only and not for the purpose of providing legal advice. You should contact your attorney to obtain advice with respect to any particular issue or problem. Nothing here should be construed to form an attorney-client relationship. Also, some of the links in this post may be affiliate links, meaning, at no cost to you, I will earn a small commission if you click through and make a purchase. But if you click, it really helps me make more of these videos! All non-licensed clips used for fair use commentary, criticism, and educational purposes. See Hosseinzadeh v. Klein, 276 F.Supp.3d 34 (S.D.N.Y. 2017); Equals Three, LLC v. Jukin Media, Inc., 139 F. Supp. 3d 1094 (C.D. Cal. 2015).

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25 Oca 2023




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LegalEagle Aylar önce
🤖 Who do you think will win the AI wars? ⭐ Get 20% OFF Nebula with your favorite creators! legaleagle.link/nebula
sojrnrR Aylar önce
@Taichou Marco In order to read my comment (aka IP) does your device not download and display it?
Lord1 Lord
Lord1 Lord Aylar önce
very nice
WhyteLis21 Aylar önce
Wonder, if there's already AI generate to counter and detect these ideas, now? Lol.
WhyteLis21 Aylar önce
Just say it, "It depends!" That's basically, what human laws comes down to. Lol.
WhyteLis21 Aylar önce
I just can't wait when the day, AI gets lawyer up in court. When the day AI gets rights and protections, will human lives be change, for better or worse? Since, we human keep wanting more AI to be more human, though. Lol.
Azrealle Aylar önce
It's hilarious that "only people can own a copyright"... but also corporations, because we're always willing to treat them like people when it benefits them and their shareholders.
(defn life())
(defn life()) 17 dakika önce
If you own a work you can transfer the rights to a corporation. Many do. It's awesome. Corporations > Organic Meatbags.
RetroKoH 5 gün önce
I get where you are trying to come from, but corporations are essentially parties consisting of people and property/capital. The latter of which cannot hold copyright. The former can.
KopiCAT 14 gün önce
@Michael P Yeah that makes sense.
Michael P
Michael P 14 gün önce
@KopiCAT "They" in this sense was an indefinite pronoun referring to the corporation which committed the corporate crime. I was not advocating that individuals within the corporation be held liable (though that would also be nice). I mean the legal "person" that is the corporation. Instead of a slap-on-the-wrist fine that corporations see as a simple cost of doing business, corporations found liable for something should face real punitive damages, something stiff enough to make shareholders take notice and force corrective action.
KopiCAT 14 gün önce
@Michael P You say "I'll believe corporations are people when they serve time for corporate crimes." OK, but who are "they"? Everyone? The owner? CEO? Shareholders? Majority and/or minority shareholders? Regular employees? Who made the decision that led to the disaster? And on what evidence did he/she base that decision on? Problem with holder corporation accountable is that there are a hodgepodge of people involved some way or another. And it's easy to circle the wagon and muddy the waters enough that it's practically impossible to point to specific persons actually at fault.
Exploshaun Aylar önce
Seeing ai art being rejected for copyright protection gave me hope for humanity.
WiggaMachiavelli 2 gün önce
@mister liligant You're not 'a photographer' because you took a photograph of yourself in your ill-fitting underwear in front of your grubby bathroom mirror, but you still own the copyright as 'the photographer' in respect of that photograph. Using AI tools to manifest a specific artistic vision requires both the vision, and the technical competency to effectively use the tool. It may be helpful to conceive of the use of prompts for AI as a higher level form of natural language programming. It should be uncontroversial that a collection of such prompts can form a copyrightable literary work, or that the picture those prompts produce can itself be copyrightable..
Scribbit B.
Scribbit B. 2 gün önce
@Kafke are those copyrighted, or were they just in a museum? Not the same thing.
mister liligant
mister liligant 26 gün önce
@HA BAO NGAN VU The human has the idea but the program does the creating, ideas are cheap and easy to reproduce but creating is another. Therefore the "artist" in this instance is the program because of the following. You're not a grandmaster of chess because you let stockfish 15 recommend you the best possible moves for you; therefore your not deserving of such a title. You're not a chef because you bought pre-packed frozen food and and the recommended vegetables.
HA BAO NGAN VU Aylar önce
Well, even if the person make the prompt, who is the artist then, the robot, them is robot human?
Kafke Aylar önce
@Zere Not at all.
Jana :3
Jana :3 Aylar önce
As an artist, thank you for covering the legal aspect of this messy issue. There are so many perspectives to it (ethical, legal, personal, economical), and it’s not a simple matter. The best thing we can do is educate ourselves and come to a consensus/ learn about what protections we have.
Euro JACK 9 gün önce
AI is isolated work a program to copy style, image and by all means your work is being used that should not, be unless it only takes the best in that style and form. hearing and understanding its has so much data behind it making great art must mean its not use even 90% after people help it understand what they like.
Praneeth Ramesh
Praneeth Ramesh 17 gün önce
​@Jeff Koenig its wild how many ppl condemn a technology that they dont even understand. if you think ai art is a "collage machine" u dont know ur talking about. and that group includes a lot of the art community.
Mathematical Poetry
Mathematical Poetry 28 gün önce
The problem with that is one must learn the mathematics needed to understand the machine learning process. Most people have no interest in learning the math and computer skills to understand how machine learning works. Therefore there will be no consensus unless you trust the computer scientists and mathematicians. In this day and age - good luck on that.
sojrnrR Aylar önce
@ Jeff Koenig ____ @Therese N let me ask you something simple: if I look at your art as a reference to learn how to draw (whatever it is your style and subject matter pertains to), are you going to sue me? Are you upset or flattered? Have I really impacted your ability to create or your reputation as an artist in any way? And finally, why does it or would it matter if the artist learning from your work is human? ___ In fact, it enhances their reputation and makes their work more notable and valuable. Also, the AI algorithm is doing EXACTLY what artists do. I wonder if those complaining about AI art, without influence from other artists living and passed, simply had their own style. I doubt it.
SkillUp Gaming
SkillUp Gaming Aylar önce
@GaidenDS10 You sound drunk. Go back to sleep, please - for all of our sakes.
Kerryn Wilkinson
Kerryn Wilkinson Aylar önce
The lawyer bot would be super easy to build. It just needs to reply to every question with "it depends"
Augustus Sol [Ina's 10th apostle of the twelve]
@Filip Hájekah but they are not a AI can’t be as charming as a lawyer justice the courts ect need humans because we can relate to each other
Molue Aylar önce
*Attorney Man:* "Was your client at the scene of the crime at or around the time it occurred?" *Lawyerbot:* "It depends." *Attorney Man:* _".........What?"_
choi an
choi an Aylar önce
tam tran
tam tran Aylar önce
Risto Paasivirta
Risto Paasivirta Aylar önce
I love it when the A.I. generates an image with two recognizable watermarks from different artists. In my opinion in this situation the copyright dispute must be handled with gladiatorial combat.
Risto Paasivirta
Risto Paasivirta 28 gün önce
@Mathematical Poetry I know. And it doesn't mean either that the system did anything that might be directly related to the artist. It's just a repeated pattern that the model has picked up as part of things it thinks belongs in a picture. Still find it funny tho when an image gets two or even three signatures on them. I do understand the frustration of the artists tho, must not be fun seeing the A.I. plastering a bastardized version of their signature unto generated artworks.
Mathematical Poetry
Mathematical Poetry 28 gün önce
Those watermarks are created in the “style” of the author they are not exact watermarks.
Moon Child
Moon Child Aylar önce
Thank you!
MrGeekFreak Aylar önce
@Sentient Gun so. i once saw a guy remove, then throw his hard drive ~15ft into the air about 20x times before recycling his computer. BUT: do the drives have 12v and cases removed? Because in that case - they win 10/10.
Sentient Gun
Sentient Gun Aylar önce
@thetruerift Hard drive stomps 8 out of 10
TimeBucks Aylar önce
What a great overview
Shahana shana
Shahana shana Aylar önce
Shahana shana
Shahana shana Aylar önce
Bui Phong
Bui Phong Aylar önce
i like it
Lord1 Lord
Lord1 Lord Aylar önce
very nice
Max khan Fun
Max khan Fun Aylar önce
Jerry Lu
Jerry Lu Aylar önce
There's a Star Trek Voyager episode called "Author, Author" dedicated to this topic, and it involves a trial setting! Since you had fun going over "Measure of a Man", it might be worth exploring for a future episode.
David Nasset
David Nasset Aylar önce
@Jeff Redfern Hardly for that. I will admit that killing nearly everyone in the Alpha quadrant under the age of 25 probably qualifies her, though. Even Chakotay and Harry only killed those under 15, plus random people who would have lived in the original timeline but died in the new one.
WhyteLis21 Aylar önce
I just can't wait when the day, AI gets lawyer up in court. When the day AI gets rights and protections, will human lives be change, for better or worse? Since, we human keep wanting more AI to be more human, though. Lol.
Joshua Click
Joshua Click Aylar önce
Haven't seen the episode but I'd love to see the breakdown
Soylent Green
Soylent Green Aylar önce
Star Trek was a slightly different issue. Their AI was a truly self-aware individual. Our current AI is more like a rudimentary version of the ship's computer. But Data was on a whole different level
klop422 Aylar önce
If we're talking Star Trek courtrooms, Dax might be interesting. Nothing to do with AI, though, lol
de anima lilium
de anima lilium Aylar önce
My thoughts on this is simple, if the AI is trained using art from human artists then those who are training the AI should arrange a licensing agreement with the original artists since their work is being used to make the AI profitable
Azaril 5 gün önce
That's just how licensing works, you can't pay the fee you can't use it, that's the whole point of it.
Azaril 5 gün önce
@Pixel Puppy that's for the most part how licensing works, when dbd first started they were too small to get the rights to people like myers and such, doesn't mean they get a reduced price, they waited till their game had a large enough audience that the rights holders saw that there was profit to be made.
Pixel Puppy
Pixel Puppy 5 gün önce
@Azaril there are "little artists and developers" who would want to train an AI to do specific things too. They wouldn't be able to afford to pay the licensing fees, while bigger media companies like Disney would. That means the little guys will be locked out of doing this.
Azaril 7 gün önce
@Jose Humdinger comparing apples to oranges. Ai isn't a music class, your comparison isn't very apt. The music theory class, isn't taking his work, studying it and then pooping out something else based on his works. It's just music theory
Jose Humdinger
Jose Humdinger 7 gün önce
If a music theory class studies Tom Petty's music, should they need Tom Petty's permission?
Zach Rodan
Zach Rodan Aylar önce
the point you brought up about fair use, that in addition to being "transformative" it must be "for a separate use" is I think a big issue with the ai artwork: as I said in my comment about the comparison to the two google cases, these ai art generators are trained on work produced by other artists in order to be able to create works that compete with those artists. I rather doubt anyone would consider that to be a separate use
Jose Humdinger
Jose Humdinger 7 gün önce
​@yodulp"failing even one of them is grounds for copyright infringement". No necessarily. All four factors have to be considered but how they are balanced against each other is up to the court to decide. It's not as simple as any lone factor always being determinative of any case.
DjMaffi 18 gün önce
@Zach Rodan the AIs right now are trained in the same way you would train a baby: you show the baby an image of a tree enough times and it will learn what a tree is by visual association. Then the baby can try and draw a tree and maybe it will kind of look like a tree. Is the drawing the baby made not dissimilar to what AI is producing? what if you train a baby with the drawing of a tree an artist made and then you tell the baby to draw a tree. is that art copyright infringment? or is there something i am missing?
DjMaffi 18 gün önce
@Cory Zilligen yeah but how do you determine what the output of AI falls under? we can discuss whether the data the AI is trained on was obtained legally, but the process by which the AI makes a piece is not that different from how an artist learns
Zach Rodan
Zach Rodan 19 gün önce
@DjMaffi the issue isn't about style. it is about the expression of ideas. the style is not subject to copyright in the first place, after all. however, the way a particular artist expresses a specific idea creates a copyrighted expression of that idea. if the ai is then using that to tell it what "airplane" looks like, i'd argue it is absolutely making use of the expression of the idea, rather than just the idea. remember, the ai, unlike a human artist, doesn't know what a tree is. it knows what set of values and weights tend to produce something humans identify as fitting the description of "tree", but it has no understanding that a tree is a large plant with a strong middle part covered with bark, which humans often cut down to get raw materials to make houses out of.
Cory Zilligen
Cory Zilligen 19 gün önce
@DjMaffi "Where is the line that determines "copying a style" vs "interpreting a style" for a human or an AI?" That's not even a legally-relevant question, though. As Devin pointed out in the video, a _style_ is not copyrightable, only the individual works.
ShadowTrell99 Aylar önce
Well I'm convinced that lawyers will probably never be replaced by machines because the law is very nuanced and complicated.
trogdoar149 Aylar önce
Just let artists opt in, the entire issue is solved. OR, just let artists opt out of having their names be used in the prompt, so that way random nobodies are unable to steal their style. Just, something to protect artists and enable the system to stay online.
Pixel Puppy
Pixel Puppy 5 gün önce
that's not the issue - because there will always be bad players who don't care about opt-in/opt-out. So sue them, right? would they win? well then we're back to square one, which is what this video is about.
Tenzhi Ti Hsien
Tenzhi Ti Hsien Aylar önce
Wait... Devin is NOT an AI lawyer? All this time I thought he was a lawyer created with improved Max Headroom technology.
Hikari Tsumi
Hikari Tsumi Aylar önce
He (Devin) is a human but the editor(s)..I have never seen this person so maybe they actually are an AI?
cyrad Aylar önce
*"Computers are not people."* As a software engineer, I've had to emphasize this point so many times when discussing this issue. It shouldn't take a lawyer and an engineer with a Master's degree in computer science to point this out, but here we are.
Pollzwark Malicakh
Pollzwark Malicakh 8 gün önce
@TresTrefusis If could create genuine sentient AI then that would raise so many ethical issues that copyright would be the least of our problems.
Moon Child
Moon Child Aylar önce
Thank you for saying that!
Eragon7 Aylar önce
@Winnie the Pooh Xi yea agreed, there is definitely a huge bias that many people have to think that they (or rather humans) are somehow unique and special among everything else when we're really not. Most people havent actually put much thought into what humans actually are or how our bodies and brains actually function. So there is a HUGE bias towards human exceptionalism. People tend to have an existential crisis when they realize that humans really arent all that special and there isnt any particular reason to assume that we are. We're still just normal animals, just with slightly more complex brains to allow for things like language and societies. But im sure people will start to realize this stuff over the next generation as people grow up with AI. Those preconceptions will disappear when there are more direct examples that show that humans arent the only ones capable of creative thought or ideas and stuff.
dinoblacklane Aylar önce
"Computers are not people." ....yet
stellarretribution Aylar önce
I really think a consensual opt-in model would be ideal. As an artist, most people are only really against having their work used for tech like this in a way that they were unaware of and did not give a “yes” to
WiggaMachiavelli 2 gün önce
@Дмитро Прищепа Then the companies that propose to use and profit from the work of others have two options - they must do what you (I think entirely wrongly) call 'impossible' and pay people for the use of their work, or they must stop using other people's work. When you say it is impossible to do sensibly, you just mean that it would be difficult, time consuming and expensive. But since these businesses make money from using the work of others (if not from the sale of the derivative work, then from fees for access to the software or from advertising attached to the software), they should have the motivation and the requisite resources to figure it out. The alternative (the do-nothing solution that you would excuse as inevitable) is essentially the following: let businesses profit from the works of others without paying them. That is entirely unacceptable.
bltzcstrnx 10 gün önce
​@Thomas Gray a truly ethical AI companies should open source everything. This way every people have the same level of access. Open sourcing have won in the past even when fighting government restrictions such as encryption. Fully open sourced AI will make it resistant to any legal attacks since it will be almost impossible to enforce.
Thomas Gray
Thomas Gray Aylar önce
@Johnathan Era If you're the drummer in a band, and an album you helped create gets played on the radio, you're entitled to royalties. If you feed your art into an AI and that AI gets used to generate new art, you should get paid too because your art is an integral part of everything that AI creates.
Johnathan Era
Johnathan Era Aylar önce
@Thomas Gray this makes no sense lol. the AI took the art as inspiration. Same as every other artists. Users of an AI generator tool shouldnt have to pay anything more than an artist who takes inspiration from van Gogh does, that is to say, nothing.
Joe Wilson
Joe Wilson Aylar önce
I watch a few authors stream on TRvid and they have expressed concerns about AI art. Specifically some of the places that have copies of their work have now modified their EUL agreements to say that their work can be fed into AI Art generators without additional consent. Kind of like, here's your notice that we are going to do it. And that was after one of them had her art stolen by a company that started churning out stuff like shirts. It took her forever to claw back her rights to that work.
Doolz Aylar önce
It's all happening so fast... Makes me envy everyone I know older than me who lived the majority of their lives before internet when there was just payphones, newspapers and pagers. So much freedom and less stress.
Matt 14 gün önce
People in ancient Rome has been saying similar things. Look up the quote from 2000 years before complaing at kids behaviour. Every generation have similar feelings
John Casey
John Casey Aylar önce
That's not really rational though. You'd just be a slave to the same systems but lack the knowledge to see it.
Ben Gencarelle
Ben Gencarelle Aylar önce
yeah, but look how THEY turned out.
Text m̝e̝ o̝n̝ t̝e̝l̝e̝g̝r̝a̝m̝ BethesdaSoftworks1
Let’s talk👆👆🎊🎊❤️
Brooke 9 gün önce
I am glad you went super in depth about this subject. I agree with the court system that currently the ai does not pertain enough human element to warrant a human copyrighted ownership. I feel the best way right now to make both artists and ai users happy in creating works would be to develop a dataset that is consensual in its production. Not only does that open the doors for ai to have ownership, as the dataset is a unique and human collective created and altered by machine similarly to many works of art done through photoshop, it also does not steal from passionate creators to potentially try and replace them. The entry level comparison of, "AI works and develops things the same way humans do" is a misconstrued analogy rather than a definitive truth. Normally I do not comment, but this conversation is super engaging to me as someone who loves art but also loves computer science.
David Caskie
David Caskie Aylar önce
As a photographer that has sold the usage right of my photographs to magazines and different client mediums I foresee the problem that is going to happen when these new "A.I. Artists" start to sell the production rights to their artwork to someone or some corporation without disclosing the the work was indeed produced by and AI program. At some point someone else sees the artwork online and takes it, (since AI work is technically free usage) and uses it somewhere else which will most certainly incur a lawsuit from the entity that paid for the original production rights. I think a lot of these new AI artists are going to have some very expensive lessons...
blah blah
blah blah 18 saatler önce
​@Matt you would also need proof you created it without using a.i
Matt 14 gün önce
You'd need a proof it was ai made first
Text m̝e̝ o̝n̝ t̝e̝l̝e̝g̝r̝a̝m̝ BethesdaSoftworks1
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oogie googie
oogie googie Aylar önce
I really think that many AI legal issues will have to be solved through the passage of new laws rather than interpretation of existing laws. The laws we have were simply not made with AI in mind.
WiggaMachiavelli 2 gün önce
I disagree. The common law is very capable of dealing with novelty. The relatively recent excessive reliance on statute, especially but not only in America, obscures this.
Moon Child
Moon Child Aylar önce
Matirion Aylar önce
@56redgreen It doesn't encode the images. It looks for patterns and similarities when it looks at an image and establishes rules based on that, which human artists do too when learning. It doesn't even use the actual images at all in the production process as a result. Let's say you ask a random artist, "can you make me a drawing in this style?" And you then show them hundreds of examples of that style made by the original artist, they will be trying to figure out what makes that style the way it is. That's the extent to which most of the AI stuff uses the copyrighted works too. A lot of the court cases die on that obstacle, because they couldn't point out the difference between a human learning the style and AI learning the style. Similarly, the creation of new work in a style doesn't use the original art either, but in the case of the stable diffusion AI, uses static and distorts it over and over to get closer to something that matches the rules it learned. At no point is the learning art actually used except for determining the rules the style follows. There are AI that actually make collages, but I suspect that the current lawsuit against stable diffusion is doomed to fail because it simply doesn't actually use the art like they claim it does.
PrograError Aylar önce
@Stephanie this is like you setting the forest on fire and then suing the fire brigade for trespassing... sure you created art, that doesn't put you in the same category as human created art we have created over the years. those all had a HAND in it's creation and effort behind it.
JCavs Aylar önce
Abolish copyright law
Jelleesi Aylar önce
Thank you! Thank you so much for addressing this topic! I've been talking about this with a few artist friends of mine for a while now. One even had their work "volunteered" to an AI learning base via a updated terms of us on a art share website.
Fearie Star
Fearie Star Aylar önce
This is such a complex and interesting topic! I really hope there are laws created to protect artists and other creatives from AI generated art/content. I also wonder if digital artists are going to return to using more traditional mediums (acrylics, oils, colored pencils, etc) to create artwork and limit what they post online. Because I've seen artists post only a small part of a painting on social media, probably to prevent art theft.
Curt J. Sampson
Curt J. Sampson Aylar önce
Do keep in mind that the original purpose of copyright (and patent, and "intellectual property" protections in general) in modern conceptions of copyright (e.g., the U.S. constitution) is not protection of the artist: it's to encourage the production of original ideas _for the benefit of society._ Copyright owners, of course, have attempted to use this to extract more rent than necessary for this encouragement. A classic example is Disney's (successful) campaigning to have the copyright massively lengthened so as to let them continue to extract rent from Mickey Mouse. This clearly goes against the intent behind copyright law in the U.S., since Disney, by creating Mickey Mouse in the first place, showed that such long copyright periods were _not_ necessary to encourage that creation. In fact, at this point where the protections have gone far beyond what's necessary just to encourage creation of new works we are actively suppressing creation: works take longer and longer to come out of copyright and become part of our "creative commons" and are thus not available for artists to re-use in their own new works. Imagine if Shakespeare's plays were still under copyright and owned by Disney; that would be a huge drag on artistry and creativity, without protecting anything except corporate profits. I don't think that there's anything inherently wrong with giving creators short-term monopolies on production of intangible things that otherwise have virtually no cost to reproduce, and letting them extract rent from that, _if_ there's a benefit to society (including other creators!) from this. Giving artists a way to make a living from their art so that they can create that art that benefits us all is a fine idea. But taken too far, or even just done in the wrong way, it turns into something that harms all of us, _including other artists,_ in order to benefit corporations and their shareholders.
l l
l l Aylar önce
@UBI Guy People that made a dataset&creators of SD and such? Got it!
UBI Guy Aylar önce
AI can't commit art theft. Only people can.
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IsYitzach Aylar önce
Jake at Corridor Crew also examined the copy right issues. He also agreed that it came down to derivative works versus transformative work. He also said, "It depends."
Mare van Hulzen
Mare van Hulzen Aylar önce
@IsYitzach It’s really not as clear cut as that. I could make a hyper-realistic digitally painted recreation of that same Afghan woman portrait and it would be a transformative work.
Zac D
Zac D Aylar önce
@IsYitzach Afghan woman was in the training data hundreds of times, it's mostly a case of bad data and extra weighting towards that result.
IsYitzach Aylar önce
@Marko Petejan I have a different opinion on the matter of weightings. I think it was Hank Green that asked one of the AI machines for "an Afghan woman" and ended up with the cover a national geographic except her eyes were green instead of brown. Clearly, in that case, almost all of the pixels came from that one image and would almost certainly be derivative and not transformative. Images can't be equal weight to all training data or all outputs would be the same. So weights to each image in the training data for each output will clearly be different and such information is unlikely to preserved in the AI unless some characteristic such as the Getty watermark were to be reproduced or an image were to be used almost in its entirety, see my previous example.
Marko Petejan
Marko Petejan Aylar önce
I would go on to say that AI work is neither derivative, nor transformative. It is not intelligent and it is not stupid. Those are words we can use for ourselves, because this is how we "work", not how AI works. Makes sense? Anyway, my information is that the dataset was 240 000 GB in size, while the AI network that is producing art is 5 GB in size. Even in the case that anything was stolen from original images (this is not how it works, btw), that would equate to 0.002% of original pixels being taken from each original image. Since the images processed by the network were all 512x512 pixels in size, this would mean that about 5 pixels were "unlawfully taken" from each image. So, we are talking at most if 5 pixels taken from a work of art is derivative or transformative. I would say neither again.
Rhythmicity Aylar önce
It's really gonna have to be on a case by case basis against other artists who might be trying to profit from work that infringes the copyright of another. It would be like suing Adobe bc I can copy/paste an image and make minimal edits and then try to sell that image w/out permission of the owner.
Tim3000 Aylar önce
This is the best video I've seen on this issue. Most treatment has been so reflexive and with no regard to how most people actually use AI. These tools are not going anywhere. Best to adapt and fast. It's tragic this is becoming a culture war. Those with the most to lose are focused on all the wrong things.
MewmewGrrl Aylar önce
This isn't about AI, but part of something you mentioned still reminds me of this old case I was reading about with a video game. The character creator in some superhero game was very detailed and let people create their characters that looked just like, well whatever they wanted? I looked it up, the info on Wikipedia: "In November, 2004, Marvel Comics filed a lawsuit against City of Heroes developer Cryptic Studios, publisher NCsoft, and game administrator NC Interactive (NCI), alleging that the game not only allowed, but actively promoted, the creation of characters who infringe copyrights and trademarks owned by Marvel." The information from that shows that they definitely didn't actively promote it. They actually went around changing any characters they saw that looked too much like a copyrighted character. But that had to do with people just having the tools to make what they wanted and some people made their characters look like copyrighted Marvel stuff.
Mr. Wallet
Mr. Wallet Aylar önce
I talked to a couple people at Cryptic, apparently Marvel themselves created some accounts and then created a bunch of "infringing" characters themselves and submitted them as evidence that Cryptic wasn't doing enough to keep infringing player characters out of the game. Cryptic looked into the characters, traced the accounts back to Marvel and/or the legal team, and the judge got _super pissed_ at the plaintiff for such shenanigans.
Flannery's NoteBook
@Starrider Yes, "superhero" itself is an archetype, completely incapable of copyright protection. However, the issue isn't the archetype but the fact the tool was so versatile you could straight up make specific existing superheroes. That's what created the issue and that's why Marvel was required to take SOME action. (Though in retrospect I am shocked neither DC nor Dark Horse stepped in either? Maybe because Marvel was already litigating, so why waste your own money on something someone else is already solving for you?) And the issue is that since it's an MMO, someone could quite literally create Iron Man's design, name him Tony Stark, and then in the public chat start spreading white supremacy. Whether for better or for worse, the major companies would have needed to step in to protect the brands. It's not just an issue of making a design that looks similar... it's the power to make the character itself that they had an issue with.
Starrider Aylar önce
@Flannery's NoteBook thank you for an interesting example! I think actually the problem here is that in our mind superheroes are a trope like "a knight", or "a witch". It comes with certain visual associations. Yet the difference is that the later were formed through centuries and there is no CR-owner of the look. Superman appeared less than a 100 years ago, others are even younger. So what we associate with "superheroes" is owned by DC, Marvel etc. They copy each other all the time and they had a lot of drama and lawsuits because of it. And I'm sure Homelander of The Boys had to figure this stuff out as well. A game that cuts these tropes into separate pieces had a great idea. But since people tend to experiment with the narrative they could build something too similar that wouldn't fit the representation of the character. It's hard to not see a strong flying white guy in a blue onesy and a red cape not as Superman. And it is potentially competing with Marvel for the same (games) market, so this is why they probably couldn't stay.
Flannery's NoteBook
@Known as because you only keep IP rights if you adequately protect them. Especially Trademarks. Also, fan content can harm the company's reputation at times. Imagine if someone made your character in a game and just started dropping the N-word left and right. Sure, it's not an official representation but the human mind can't understand that. It would just know, "Spider-man kept using the N-Word," and would develop that association because contrary to popular thought--the human brain is really stupid.
Known as
Known as Aylar önce
@Flannery's NoteBook Ah, I understand. But honestly, if it was up to me, I'd let the players do what they want; If the players are having fun, and if it promotes the IP, why not?
Adam L. Giroux
Adam L. Giroux Aylar önce
The laws are gonna need to be clarified and redefined because this is gonna get very complicated very soon.
DJHDOG Aylar önce
It's gonna be one helluva ride once it comes out in earnest thats for sure, buckle up
José Ángel
José Ángel Aylar önce
@Sugmatron What if something was PARTIALLY created by AI? Hollywood artist are using to create part of their line work. At what point is transformative enough? At what points there's "enough human creativity"? We need legal guidelines and standards.
Jeremy Maas
Jeremy Maas Aylar önce
@Emish Vortexus the human has intent. the computer does not. just because a handoff is happening doesn't mean the infringement didn't take place.. 'AI art isn't just images the AI is throwing out independently of human interaction' - yes it is.. this is actually what the diffusion process is.. there is a layer on top of this in the programming model that tries to randomize, add flair, etc. to make it feel like it is 'creating'
Jeremy Maas
Jeremy Maas Aylar önce
@Emish Vortexus this is a wild and dangerous statement. you are implying some sort of magical sentience to ai art generators. you can look into the diffusion process and how machine learning works to understand how different they are humans looking at copyright works and then creating a transformative work from inspiration and a culmination of life experience is vastly different from a computer diffusing a set of copyrighted images into one
Kyaru Momochi
Kyaru Momochi Aylar önce
You cant copyright or stop AI from doing what it does
Noremac the Negligible
The main thing I learned from this video is that there will definitely be AI lawyers in the future.
LanxPenzenpepper Aylar önce
Maybe, it would've been fixed a long time ago if they just asked for artists permissions... pretty sure a lot of artists are more than willing to commission some training arts for them... Maybe, everytime that certain artist's art gets used, they get like part of the profit for that ai art's sales..
Chiscringle Aylar önce
1:48 - Thank you for the "not yet." Even a lot of AI law experts don't seem ready to acknowledge that this is a future case that we should at least be prepared for mentally if not yet putting a lot of work into getting ready for it.
Miskatonic Alumni
Miskatonic Alumni Aylar önce
I could hear the joy when he said "that's going to be litigated many, many times in the future"
Project CSG
Project CSG Aylar önce
I have always said it, Ai Generator are a fascinating tool, however the reason so many artists are mad about it, isn’t the fact that it exists, but rather how it’s being utilized, Ai Generator has been taking so much images without the consent of the artists who made it, that it wouldn’t be a surprise if some of those images came from Patreon, not to mention my biggest concern that I don’t think the developers of Ai Generator realize, they just gave a new tool for scammers to further there endeavours to lie, cheater, and steal for the sake of profit, and not to quote Jurassic Park (this is pure coincidence I wasn’t expecting legal Eagle to mention it), but it does fit with this topic (-_-; “They were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.”
Connor McCoy
Connor McCoy 5 gün önce
Brittany Ann Phillips
It'd be interesting to hear your take on AI generation of voices and copyright. Right now many companies are trying to get voice actors to train AI voices to be used in perpetuity to use however they see fit. More commonly, they're slipping in clauses in contracts to use voice actors' likeness for future work so they don't have to call voice actors into the recording studio anymore. We're trying to fight back but the big companies that use this won't amend their contracts to remove the clause, leaving voice actors in a hard place of either staying and lose out on future work or walk and lose those particular jobs. We're definitely going to have to adapt to this change in the industry but we don't want to be replaced.
Kenneth Ferland
Kenneth Ferland Aylar önce
Yea this practice should be banned cause it's basically stealing a persons identity, talent and livelyhood from them. This AI art will be absused the same way if it's not nipped in the bud.
Krystian Aylar önce
@Cesar You can make a sound that is similar to someones voice, yes. That applies to famous people too. If you artificially, from scratch, make a digital voice and are in no way, shape or form suggesting or implying a person with said voice being involved, then there's literally nothing that can happen to you. If you take a recording of a voice of ANYONE, regardless of whether they are famous or not, and then use THAT to 'teach' a computer to speak with that voice, then use that voice, then you can be sued. No fame is needed. A sound itself (even in the form of voice) cannot be copyrighted, but a specific voice taken from a person belongs to them specifically. You didn't prove anything at all. You only brought up something that doubles-down on what already applies to EVERY SINGLE PERSON in every country that has any sort of privacy protection laws in effect. Exactly because there are people as ignorant as you are about the law thinking that they can do anything unless it is explicitly stated for them. So there, the people that can actually be expected to be hurt through that mean are explicitly stated. That's all it does.
taki Aylar önce
Great analysis! The idea that a style can be copyrighted is obviously silly but it's worrying how many anti-AI arguments come close to defending that. Ultimately I think the fact that so many people have such a negative reaction towards AI art shows that it will never fully replace artists. The human element is too important in too many situations. It's essentially just a highly advanced character creator.
Kafke Aylar önce
Humans are involved in every AI art piece. You're mistaken. A photograph takes less human effort than an ai art piece.
John Fait
John Fait Aylar önce
My biggest question is fan art and fan fiction. Both of those forms of media use other, copyrighted forms of media as inspiration. AIs just have access to a larger pool of information to for it's versions. I think that AI art should have a watermark in the corner, declaring it AI art, like how people have to put disclaimers on stories and such.
KateandBree Aylar önce
Thank you for talking about this. One of my dear friends and artists, Kelly McKernan is mentioned. Her business has been seriously impacted by AI. Please support independent artists.
aazhie Aylar önce
Links to her site or portfolio?
Emily Scavassa_Ways
I think it's funny that when LegalEagle was reviewing TNG's "Measure of a Man" and he was wondering about the law and case history that Capt's Louvois and Picard were talking about and here he is probably talking about the cases that could have been used by Louvois to consider Data as property.
Ian Wood
Ian Wood Aylar önce
I was surprised with the comic having the copyright for it removed after it was given. My understanding though is that this is under appeal. Also even though an AI generator was used to create the work there was a lot of other steps that were involved that without question required human input. My understanding is the creator of that comic created original characters using a 3d modeling program, captured stills of them, fed them into an image edition and used a filter to make them look more like 2d digital illustrations, exported those pics, fed them into an AI generator (Stable Diffusion) as reference images, and type in the words to generate the desired images. The creator then took those images, arranged them as desired, and wrote the words within the comic. To me at least I would think that though an image generator was used that a lot of human impute and creativity was used before and after which you would think would be enough to constitute human authorship with the final product. I of course could be wrong about a couple things here since I am also a little busy but I don't mind being corrected if I am wrong especially if there is a linked source to back it up.
Kafke Aylar önce
@Ian Wood Yup. I'm not a lawyer so I can't speak on what the law does or doesn't say. But I *am* an artist, computer scientist, and someone who's made both ai art and photographs. I'm absolutely confident that the ai art takes more effort than a photograph. It takes more creativity, skill, and effort. I can spend hours on ai art, whereas I can take an accidental photo in a split second. To say ai art takes less effort than a photo is a blatant lie. Just as a camera has settings, so do ai art tools. Just as you have to pick a subject to take a photo of, so too do you have to say what you want your art subject to be. Just as you have to "frame your shot" for a photo, so too must you do this for ai art. To compare high effort photography to low effort ai art is dishonest. As for the comic, there is no doubt that there was significant human effort in such a work. Because ai cannot currently generate entire comics. There still must have been significant human curation and effort to put it all together, at the very least.
Ian Wood
Ian Wood Aylar önce
@Kafke Seen some follow up articles that didn't get the attention earlier ones did though apparently the copyright for the comic wasn't actually removed by the USCO and was a glitch in the system but it's status is still under review.
Kafke Aylar önce
People are forgetting that ai art doesn't come out of a vacuum. EVERY ai art piece had some aspect of human direction and creativity to, in the words of this video, "determine the framing, subject, settings of the device, etc.". If AI work is not sufficiently creative, neither is photographs. As AI art arguably takes more work than a photograph.
Peter Coolbaugh
Peter Coolbaugh Aylar önce
Not to mention that the AI is a tool created by a human, which took creativity to build. Arguably the software engineers have a vested interest in the eventual outputs.
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ckellingc Aylar önce
What really worries me is the idea of the Senate (average age 63) and house (average age 58) will be writing laws on breaking edge tech. Most of whom couldn't tell you the difference between C++ and Python.
Kevin Wu
Kevin Wu Aylar önce
@Matthew Kleinmann and the other can drive you crazy
BEN Aylar önce
I kind of agree that understanding the way this technology works could be beneficial, but lawyers learning programming languages is a waste of their time. We teach enough useless crap already.
Kevin Wu
Kevin Wu Aylar önce
@SheyD78 close
PuzzLEGO Aylar önce
i was thinking this. especially after that facebook scandal
gabriel wachong
gabriel wachong Aylar önce
As a lawyer, I wonder how you feel about people using chat gpt as their lawyer? Do you see a possible displacement on the legal field as it is happening to art?
DrWhoFanJ Aylar önce
Another interesting element would surely be the *purpose* for which the AI is used. If it’s simply a tool to upscale one photo to better match the other ones in a collage, then that’s a very different proposition to it creating the entire piece itself, and I honestly think the former would qualify as simply an advancement on using other already-existing tools to do the same thing.
Ryan Campbell
Ryan Campbell 29 gün önce
Amazing overview, can't wait to see what the updates are after the andy warhol foundation v goldsmith (unless they start to differentiate more with AI)
Mag Aylar önce
Is there a legal argument that AI art trained on a specific professional artists' work destroys the market for that work (because that seems like a very real possibility, and a big concern for working artists)
Thomas Adams
Thomas Adams Aylar önce
Proper fascinating topic- always love your videos mate, so informative ! I’ve watched just about every one on here AND on Nebula to boot! Do keep on, I so enjoy the interesting topics I come across through your commentary and evaluations!
H McNamara
H McNamara Aylar önce
Just a side note--At my community college, students will get written up for academic dishonesty once they use ChatGPT or other AI to "generate" or write assignments. So although lots of clickbait videos that tell students they are avoiding plagiarism by using ChatGPT to "write" their stuff, they are not avoiding being written up and suspended for using artificial intelligence to write essays rather than write them themselves.
Vyl Bird
Vyl Bird Aylar önce
@ArseneGray If you want good science, you need to make sure your scientists are of the highest practical level of knowledge. That means rigorous testing through the academic system.
ArseneGray Aylar önce
@Vyl Bird Free cheating? the purpose of science is too amass knowledge not too amass academic honors. If a AI helps us by generating essays which fulfills the definition of new and worthy knowledge then we should celebrate it. Fighting it is not only a sing of narcissistic entitlement but also a crime against humanity. We should not only be allowed to use AI but are morally obliged to do so.
XdivineExp Aylar önce
​@M I disagree. A lot of the time, the point of a writing assignment is to show that you've read and understood the topic in question, know how to do proper research, and know how to write. Like if I ask you to do an assignment on the civil war and you just make chatGPT do everything for you, it doesn't actually show that you know any of the above. At that point, why even have the assignment in the first place?
Peter Sage
Peter Sage Aylar önce
There was a scene in _Generation O!_ where the bassist Nub said that playing any two chords or notes in sequence could be interpreted as an actionable derivative work of any other tune. A lot of real-life music copyright cases hinge on this concept. Depending on how one interprets derivative vs transformative, even typing 0-3-5 could infringe on Deep Purple's copyright for "Smoke on the Water".
Peter Sage
Peter Sage Aylar önce
@PrograError This was the point of that scene. All Been Heard Before. If you're keen on songs that share chord progressions, check out "Four Chords Song" by Axis of Awesome. David Bennett also has a fairly extensive playlist of common chord progressions in popular music. By the way, the vast majority of these progressions can be found in music dating back before the Baroque era, so they're all out of copyright.
PrograError Aylar önce
well... modern song then have lots of it... it's like all the same chords...
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Zach Rodan
Zach Rodan Aylar önce
THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS VIDEO! I have been hoping to see a lawyer's take on the topic
Team Quigley
Team Quigley Aylar önce
I definitely think we have gotten to a point where contracts with AI are necessary for work/corporate purposes but they should have a custodian like a minor child signing a contract. Like if you program an AI to commit a crime or design a great product either way a human being created it because it created and maintains the AI.
graham1345 Aylar önce
This is why it's pretty ridiculous how many copyright claims against musicians for songs that sound similar. The "style" isn't copyrightable so they should in theory all be thrown out unless there is literal copy pasting of the notes which can be picked out by a computer.
skierpage Aylar önce
Prior to "Blurred Lines", in most copyright infringement lawsuits, the melody's notes are in fact the same intervals, and close to the same durations; furthermore, the chords providing harmony are often very similar. It's nothing to do with "picked out by computer" and copying the style of the music was usually not part of the plaintiff's legal argument. The problem with music is there only 12 notes, so in most cases, musicologists can point out songs with the same melody and chords that preceded both songs. However "Blurred Lines" is the exception that changes everything; the melody is not identical but Pharrell et al. clearly copied the feel of "Got to Give It Up" and surprisingly the Marvin Gaye estate won.
William Brown
William Brown Aylar önce
I would love to see you have a conversation with Tom Nicholas on copyright! Bringing a law specialist and literary specialist into conversation would be fruitful.
Cybr Friends
Cybr Friends Aylar önce
Lawyers: "A robot working as a lawyer? that is dumb" Also Lawyers: "If you dare to use that robot lawyer, you will get jail time"
Brett Lovell
Brett Lovell Aylar önce
The Opening Arguments podcast is currently pitting an AI against a guy with no formal legal education, and the human is pantsing the AI so far.
Jonathan Fields
Jonathan Fields Aylar önce
Seriously. Are lawyers afraid of being beaten and couching that fear as an “ethical legal issue?”
Richard Pike
Richard Pike Aylar önce
Kinda logically tangential to: "If you dare to do/use something dumb, you will get jail time" Yea most people who do something dumb will receive comeuppance, quickly or slowly. Like the idea of karma.
thomasfplm Aylar önce
I'm thinking what would happen if an AI generated piece was used in a book maybe even the cover, then someone too that image and used it. Considering the image wouldn't be protected by copyright, maybe the person who made the book would be unable to stop the other person from using it in a different book. If it happened, maybe companies would go back to the artists just to be able to protect their works.
thomasfplm Aylar önce
@thejadegecko, not exactly the same thing I said. This case talked about the backlash. What I'm saying is that, supposedly, anyone can use anyway they want the image on the cover if they remove the text. You could use that image on a billboard for a totally different product. You could use it as a cover for another book with a totally difference story.
thejadegecko Aylar önce
They are already doing it. Look up "christopher paolini ai cover"... And the fact that the author just shrugged his shoulders and said he doesn't want to push the book back again to get a little new cover. I hope his book gets reported.
Marioluigijam 23 gün önce
Thank you for creating this video! I will be citing in for my research paper about AI art!
wilwaricson Aylar önce
I really appreciate the nuance and thoroughness of covering the complexities. I do think it's worth looking into ways to essentially reimburse artists for their contributions to these databases - I really do think that the biggest ethical violation of the most recent breakthroughs is the trend of websites profiting (through ads if nothing else) off of the databases and AI research that was done with the same "fair use" exemption - Profitable ventures shouldn't get to use that exemption, especially if the people whose work was used for training the software could also see their livelihoods otherwise endangered by the same software. It seems like common sense that the distinction between fair use for academic research and what's become a profitable business model.
Lorien Drechsler
Lorien Drechsler 5 gün önce
"**For this to happen Congress would actually have to do some work though". Well said, sir. Instead, someone will just get on social media and whine about how unfair it is, asking their supporters for donations to help fight the cause, then use that money for themselves.
Klay Thoring
Klay Thoring Aylar önce
I love the idea that you could just be so bad that you wouldn't infringe copyright 😄
bob hargarfargle
bob hargarfargle Aylar önce
Legal topics aside, I'm pretty impressed with LegalEagle's clear effort. Most times I hear people talk about AI, they oversimplify the nature of how they work. LegalEagle has, without going into particulars, put stable diffusion into digestible terms. The respect he and his team gives to the topics they deal with is admirable.
Jeremy Maas
Jeremy Maas Aylar önce
@Darkzeroprojects It will get better very fast. I agree with everything you say but none of that will matter if the court decides to oversimplify the tech in it's ruling.. My point is the more people oversimplify and imply sentience.. the more the court will favor the ai companies. Ethics is linked to legality
Darkzeroprojects Aylar önce
@Jeremy Maas Thing is, they one point said they'd not automate or push this stuff to creative endeavors, but now they're doing it more and more. ALOT of people do not consider A.I. Image generators like stable diffusion and such as something Art needed. And the Ethics of how it's been going have been to artists pretty questionable. From the Samedoesart drama, the sudden A.I. made 2 days after kim kung gis death. Then the fact some justify as a framework of why not or "if we don't someone else will" which is honestly a silly one to me.
Darkzeroprojects Aylar önce
I honestly don't care of the oversimplifications, because honestly I just don't find A.I. for this creative based medium that much worth being thing. The only main thing it's being so far for is for the "cheap and fast mass production" crap, Corperations, and for one to exploit for whatever gain. When I see A.I. generated images being sold at Artstation a art PROFILE site with NFT licenses purchase, I don't find it's really to "Help artists do things faster" .
Titanium Dragon
Titanium Dragon Aylar önce
@Seungwan Wee Only --test and --testp uses Stable Diffusion. The other versions of the AI don't use the Stable Diffusion software. --v 4 is not a stable diffusion based system.
Mitchell Aylar önce
Honestly he barely went into it and didn't even point out the blatant inaccuracies and lies presented about the workings of the technology found in the artists lawsuit, as usual he held a neutral stance that's talking from the point of the law but it's pretty clear he did not research how latent diffusion actually works.
Midi Music Forever
Midi Music Forever 5 gün önce
AI images generally are not copyright infringement, but there are the problematic cases where oops it generated about the same image as something that already exists.
Tony Li
Tony Li 5 gün önce
I think it can/will be solved with one simple solution, they will just add a disclaimer like Twitter does. 'This content may or maynot be copyright infringement. Use at your own risk.' Then they can shift blame from the AI company to the users themselves, while allowing the AI company to continue their practices.
Anthony Lanati
Anthony Lanati Aylar önce
This one was a total head spin. Sometimes it feels like these complex topics need a bit of a TL:DR recap at the very end, but honestly that was a solid video that is super topical. I wonder if you could do one on other A.I. like ChatGPT and the ethics or legality of their use? I know quite a few academics, authors, satirist & journalists who are quite concerned by the rise of these servers. In the case of the academics some are kind of terrified that they will never be able to issue literature based assignments every again once the ChatGPT and its equivalents become more widely used, especially given plagiarism checkers can't catch these types of texts.
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Leto Fregar
Leto Fregar Aylar önce
I think a lot of this shows that we have to completely rethink the whole copyright system. It is highly complex, has to often be decided on a case by case analysis (keeping courts busy and lawyers rich), and in some cases got blown out of proportion (e.g., why exactly is a work still copyrighted 75 years after the death of the original author?). However, depending on the changes done, we have to include a way to finance creative workers in the future (e.g. if copyright is no longer used or very limited, a lot of artists will not be able to monetize their work by selling copies). There are models for this, so it is not unthinkable. But again, this might open the discussion of the future of work in general, so I guess we will have to deal with this highly complex and sometimes absurd system for a while longer...
Tetsujin Aylar önce
There's another AI issue that has flared up on youtube and the internet. A popular streamer Asmongold (and now others) have had his videos used (by consent) to train an AI streamer (a deep fake representation of a streamer trained to answer questions in the style of the streamer). This is absolutely awesome and funny to watch, which may be very spooky for streamers who make a living out of it. What actually prevents people from using streamers youtube videos to train an AI streamer, and publish the AI streamer to produce income?
ArseneGray Aylar önce
Why should it be prevented? See, what generates the value of a product, be it a Poster you buy, a Song you listen to or a Stream you watch, is not the "work" and "how" behind it. It is solely the end result. People engage with those products because they like what they are and not how they became. Prohibiting this will not only reduce the amount of good products out there but also hinder humanity's progress.
Christopher Pearce
Christopher Pearce Aylar önce
I tell you as soon as Disney trains an AI in cartoon art and use it to make a future length movie they will get a copyright.
Alexandra_ Avr
Alexandra_ Avr Aylar önce
@小月猫 i've never understood this, how does stricter copyright laws hurt indie creators?? If this lawsuit doesn't do anything it will only hurt independent artists.
小月猫 Aylar önce
@ChaosMonkey disney is literally a part of the plaintiffs in one of these cases, trust me, disney has every incentive to make copyright laws stricter, as it only helps big corpos and hurts the indie creators
Nether Portals
Nether Portals Aylar önce
Maybe; they loose Mickey Mouse next year, gotta replace him some how lol. I personally love using AI interpolation on my own youtube channel
Jack B
Jack B Aylar önce
@Amethyst Imagination That's how it works, and cheaper and easier than trying to buy them out or a controlling interest in the company. It's like short selling, but even nastier. See: When ZeniMax (Bethesda software) tried to preempt the emergent VR market by suing Oculus for nothing less than control of the company, but only after Facebook offered billions for it.
Methrael Aylar önce
I just realized something - in the cases of professional artists and such who have spent years of effort honing their craft, would they instead be able to seek damages for unauthorized reproduction or derivation of a proprietary method?
NYKIRA Aylar önce
It's so interesting to see how diverse the world is and what holds importance to some
lumin Aylar önce
id really like to hear your legal opinion on the fact that stable diffusion was also caught taking images of private medical records into its database could that be brought into any of the lawsuits? is there any current laws that could at least have private information removed from the database? whats the limit for how an ai can comb through the internet and who gets in trouble for if it grabs something private? would that effect an artists case if they specifically state on their own website (or in some cases, a third party art hosting site that has a no ai tag or something) they dont allow their work to be used to train ai?
Lazerkat789 Aylar önce
The fact he joked about corporations technically counting as a person, and then jokingly said a computer isn't for now; leads me to believe one day robots will count as a person rip
Em Fo
Em Fo Aylar önce
Thanks for this video. As legal counsel, I have been asking myself all of these same questions in the last few months so it is comforting to know that I am not alone. It is very frustrating to not being any closer to any answers though.
OlyOak Aylar önce
Exceptional video. I license art from artists and recently I have been inundated with AI pitched art. For now, I’m staying away from it. I see the best use of it as an idea generator that an actual artists uses as a general starting point. Besides, AI now can’t pull off hands or faces without being detectable.
MDV Aylar önce
@Jrasta111 I assume people say AI art as an abbreviation to keep it simple, rather than *"a neural network-based machine learning algorithm"* or whatever else its called
p Aylar önce
@DevilMan if you are talking img2img then yes, but that wouldn't be very honest. a bit strong to accuse someone of talking shit when you're the one doing it. i realize it's because you don't know any better but why then the strong opinion? like, you just got a clue that perhaps you're in the wrong - couldn't you have done a simple google search about how ai art works?
Stacey Kimbell
Stacey Kimbell Aylar önce
@Ilyak1986 you don't lose copyright to something if it's on the internet. If that were so I'd go out and sell bootleg CDs of every great artist on YT right now
Ilyak1986 Aylar önce
@Stacey Kimbell owe? You don't owe anything. You put material on the internet, and now it's open source. Ultimately, placing something on the internet is sharing it, one way or another. Don't want something used by someone else? Don't share it.
Stacey Kimbell
Stacey Kimbell Aylar önce
@Ilyak1986 why do I owe a software developer the use of my IP to improve sales of his product?
Joss Whittle
Joss Whittle Aylar önce
@LegalEagle my doctorate is in Machine Learning. The biggest issue facing us with legal definitions and regulations in this area is the misuse of the term AI in popular culture and the desire of researchers in the field to use terms that evoke a response from the public. The types of models we are discussing are really not that different from just linear regression, a line of best fit, new points of data synthsized on the manifold you have curve fit to your data. There is no intent, there is no sentience, there is no intelligence. All of that is anthropomorphisation by people. If I took financial data that was under a license I did not have permission to use, and I used it to make a model and generate predictions so I could generate revenue I think it would be pretty clear where I had crossed the line. The fact that it is art, or writing, or the appearance of a conversational agent is a distraction. You are all missing the point because the term AI is evokative. This is a very simple discussion about data licensing when you wash away all the noise and rhetoric and realize it's just linear regression in higher dimensions.
Stannis Baratheon
Stannis Baratheon Aylar önce
You should have chosen a different career path, Dr. Whittle, since none of the models currently discussed are based on linear regression, rather on more complex machine learning algorithms.
snood Aylar önce
@Curt J. Sampson "If you gave a copyright owner a copy of the data that embody the trained neural network and asked them to find their original text anywhere in these data, they would not be able to do so." Not in the Getty Images case, they show several cases where the output of SD is essentially just a compressed version of the original.
Curt J. Sampson
Curt J. Sampson Aylar önce
This brings up a point not addressed in the video, however, and where the Devin didn't quite seem to understand what's happening with the material going into the machine learning process. I'll leave aside images for the moment, because that's a bit more complex, but let's look at machine learning on text. The original texts are fed into the usual neural network training process which produces a new neural network that's been trained on the data. However, after this point the original texts can be thrown away; what is left is the trained neural network which, to my understanding, does not contain direct copies of any of the original text (beyond fragments such as words and perhaps phrases, if even that). So if you gave a copyright owner a copy of the data that embody the trained neural network and asked them to find their original text anywhere in these data, they would not be able to do so. Is there a copyright violation here? Seemingly not; copyright protects the _form,_ not the _ideas,_ and while the source ideas might be argued to be in those data, they are certainly not there in anything like the original form. It's unlikely in most systems that you could even find a way to get the neural network to reproduce the original work. So is this a correct view of what's happening in at least some cases? Note that this is a very different case from your example of generating predictions from financial data; there you are using a copy of the original financial data, and the original form of the data you used could easily be produced from your copy.
snood Aylar önce
Someone finally explains it, thank you.
DeepIn Thought
DeepIn Thought Aylar önce
I'm really excited to hear more about AI copyright
methodof3 Aylar önce
I am actually interested in whether a paralegal could use chatGPT to pass the bar and work as a lawyer all without going to school
Finite Banjo
Finite Banjo Aylar önce
The editor is making great use of TRvid's new policy on intellectual property displayed in less than so many seconds, not too long ago this video would have gotten strikes or demonetized for showing clips of transformers or Moe.
BatCat Aylar önce
This feels like moment in the movie where we are setting precedent for robot rights based on dumb A.I that will be used to oppress far more human A.I and ultimately lead to the inevitable robot uprising. Part of me is hoping I get to live to see it, and part of me really doesn’t want to have to deal with that
SALeydolt Aylar önce
Speaking of Copyright and Mickey Mouse, can you talk on how Disney will lobby Congress to change copyright law again so that Mickey Mouse will not fall into the public domain this year? I feel that when policy is made to handle copyright on AI generated content that there will be a rider attached to the bill that will somehow extend Disney's copyright over Mickey Mouse. If you could do a video on this, that would be awesome!
Nathanael D. Striker
@Just Some Guy Oh I'm aware of Disney's reputation. Just wanting to make sure exactly what was going into the public domain.
John DoDo Doe
John DoDo Doe Aylar önce
@Zhou Fang Some other countries have longer time spans than the US under the very same international treaties, so potentially, Disney could lobby congress to keep up with those other countries. But otherwise they have the perpetual option of trademarking certain recognizable visual or word features of Mickey and maintaining it by publishing new products (not necessarily new art) with those trade markings. For example they could regularly publish new issues of the printed Mickey Mouse magazine with Mickey on the front page and new random selections of old Comic strips inside, and that would count as actively using the trademark to distinguish their genuine products from competing garbage. This would legally be the same as Rolex using their trade mark name and logo to distinguish their watches from any other watches from the same contract factory.
SALeydolt Aylar önce
@Zhou Fang unfortunately congressional lobbying is legal in the United States, also last time there was heavy lobbying and like I said I believe they will try to put it though as a rider on another bill to avoid the public eye. I just highly doubt that Disney will allow Mickey to fall into the public domain quietly
Zhou Fang
Zhou Fang Aylar önce
@SALeydolt that's (a) illegal (b) sure wasn't how they went about it last time round and (c) counterproductive because selling the idea to the public is a big part of their efforts.
SALeydolt Aylar önce
The thing I hate most about Disney trying so hard to keep Mickey Mouse out of the public domain, is that Disney's whole animated empire is based off of stories from the public domain. It is just so hypocritical for them to skirt public domain when so much of thier empire was built on it's back.
Domen Bremec
Domen Bremec Aylar önce
We are talking about an online scenario, so going outside of the US's and UK's law would be extremely helpful. I realise you studied law in the US, so what are some law channels from other parts of the world that may or may not have differing legal views on the situation at hand?
StupidButCunning Aylar önce
I worry about companies hiring artists to create a series of work, but specify in the contract that any rights to the works created for the company are for the company to use in any way as they see fit. I believe this is often already the case, but taking this a step further would mean that the company could just feed the work into an A.I. generator and create all future works they require in a similar style at a fraction of the cost. This would effectively screw the original artist out of an otherwise consistent income.
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Baris Aylar önce
I watched the corridor digital video and they talked about a noising and denoising step. Basically re-creating the image in a way that's is different enough in detail but close enough in essence. Instead of using noise if a human did a reinterputation of some sort, I think the new work would be fair use and later the images generated by the model trained on that image should be too. I am guessing a lot will rely on if a non-human entity can re-create a original (non-copyrightable) image from an existing one
Casey Bess
Casey Bess Aylar önce
During your explanation of photography being copyright-able it sounded a lot like AI art generation (settings, composition, etc). I bet there's an interesting argument to be made that the person(s) who built the AI have the copyrights.
Vemund Dyrkolbotn
Vemund Dyrkolbotn Aylar önce
Writing the prompts, selecting the parameters, and making a template image for image to image also makes a strong case for the person generating the image. Also what if they take it to Photoshop and makes changes to it there?
J-pod Aylar önce
Thank you for this! Learned a good bit. Would you beable to do another video on AI & Deepfakes.. And what do we own about ourselves? Our voice, Appearance, and Everything about us (writings, Recordings, and all our info). What do we own about ourselves and how does law see it with AI art and Deepfakes?
Kent Michael Galang
imagine getting an ai to decide if one picture is infringing the copyright of another
satannstuff Aylar önce
@mking1999 They usually don't, but if the copyright holder notices and decides to do something about it, they have a serious problem.
mking1999 Aylar önce
@therabbithat I don't think artists that have made comissions that contain copyrighted characters or something generally pay the copyright holder anything, so I'm not sure why taking a publicly available image would require it.
icecube Aylar önce
It's all AI, all the way down. 🤯
Simon Buchan
Simon Buchan Aylar önce
@therabbithat define "use". At least in the case of Stable Diffusion (the one we have the full description of how it works) the data set LAION creates a fancy thumbnail when it "uses" the actual image (so likely under fair use) collapsing 200tb of source images and related text to a 6tb data set, training a Stable Diffusion model "uses" all of those fancy thumbnails thousands of times each to create a 5gb model describing all the internal associations between small and large arrangements of pixels and between pixels and text losing any specific associations with act particular work, which is a "new purpose" defense if I've ever heard one, then generating an image feeds random noise through that model weighted by your input text - "using" of any particular work sounds impossible to define (let alone implement) and most likely would end up with the "use" spread like butter over toast over every image in the dataset, which would likely be below the bar of meaningful infringement in each case. Current copyright law just doesn't seem to be your friend here. If you want to protect art commissions, I suggest talking to a politician, not a lawyer. But first, figure out what that law change should be, and to do that figure out what ai image generation actually is and does so it's an implementable law.
Lauren pins channels
@Cesar that's what you'd hope, but it is not in fact the case that ai is in any way free of bias of its creators. the dataset used encodes their bias, and then the ai happily slurps that bias up and runs with it.
Jacob Paint
Jacob Paint Aylar önce
It seems that the “complex collage” idea might be a determining factor. Could I take pieces of artworks and create a new image? Would it depend on how large the pieces were? What if I took thousands of pieces of various artworks then arranged them to resemble another artists work? Is it a “complex collage” if the AI is comparing several works by an artist to determine consistent parameters then applying them to apply things like colour, measurement, spacing and texture to new subject matter? eg. Creating a colour palette and rendering a portrait with the same type of brush strokes is not that far removed from what is done in drawing apps anyway. Although specific colour palettes within the apps are probably copyrighted, you could potentially sample the colours elsewhere and recreate the colour palette manually and the work you produce won't infringe copyright law (unless they could somehow prove that you deliberately copied those colours)
Kafke Aylar önce
AI art is not a collage of any kind. If that's the determining factor, then ai art is 100% okay. NO existing art is used in the generation of ai art. None whatsoever.
Jo Aylar önce
I know it is not *technically* illegal to do that, but I feel like most artists (that is, individual, self employed artists, I do not think this is the case for corporatized art) would politely but firmly tell you to get lost, because that feels like something the artist might get sued for
Leto2ndAtreides Aylar önce
One assumes that most AI image creators wouldn't bother mentioning the hand of AI when they go to copyright it - now that the law has ruled in that direction. There was a recent law review that focused on the transformative nature of the work - taking inspiration without strongly mimicking, is almost always allowed.
Quontox Aylar önce
Because copyright is done on a case by case basis, I feel like it needs to move onto a more objective approach such as an algorithm comparing the two works and determining if there is something like a more than 90% likeness or whatever arbitrary threshold you could consider to be a copy, since it could be done before a work is even published.
o0alessandro0o Aylar önce
The comic book story is interesting, because I assume there is some level of curation there, separating the wheat from the chaff, and that curation makes it the work of a human being. If nothing else, the prompt is the work of a human being, meaning there is creative work, done by a human being, which is then processed by a machine, resulting in a unique work that would logically belong to the human being as the author of the prompt. At what point does a photoshop filter strip copyright from a work?
Jim McCaffery
Jim McCaffery Aylar önce
Dan Fogelberg had to defend himself in court against copyright infringement on a CCR song he wrote and performed vs. a new song he released as a solo artist! He was on the witness stand giving the jury music lessons on cord progressions and how his voice was always going to sound like him. Copyright and Patent Laws today are I’ll suited for what Ben Franklin had in mind.
VineFynn Aylar önce
Don't pay attention to argumrnts, pay attention to rulings. Lawyers throw everything at the wall during cases just to see whats sticks- that doesn't tell you whether the law is good.
EebstertheGreat Aylar önce
@AncientDirtbag It was Fogerty. CCR's label claimed Fogerty's "The Old Man Down the Road" was too similar to CCR's "Run Through the Jungle." It seemed like if CCR won, that would mean Fogerty wouldn't be able to make songs in his own style anymore. Thankfully Fogerty won, and he was eventually able to recover all of his legal fees too after a countersuit.
AncientDirtbag Aylar önce
@Laura Hubbard heard it bowlth ways b
Laura Hubbard
Laura Hubbard Aylar önce
I think you meant John Fogerty.
Cedric Aylar önce
If nobody can copyright an image created by an AI, does it mean that everybody can freely use this image even without paying a fee to the programmer ? Or is there another way of protecting this work ?
Titanium Dragon
Titanium Dragon Aylar önce
Also, FYI, only one version of MidJourney actually uses StableDiffusion; most versions of it are not based on StableDiffusion but are their own independent program that is separate from StableDiffusion.
4rt_6uy Aylar önce
As I understand it, what AI is doing is like a musician sampling or remixing. It's not just developing a style or technique.
Josh Stephens
Josh Stephens Aylar önce
I can't wait until this is decided in court. It's going to come down to a simple question of whether A.I.s are sentient enough. The philosophy of "I think, therefore I am." will suddenly be very relevant.
Renata Tostada
Renata Tostada Aylar önce
Copyright law in this country sucks. I honestly don't even know who it's supposed to protect anymore
topherdavid420 Aylar önce
All of this shows how broken' the entire copyright, patent, and trademark system is totally broken'. I have had people on Adobe's old "social media" program/ app., take my original works, run them through one filter, and then make money off my photographs, leaving me broke and without any kind of credit... The entire system is broken' and failing, and will continue to fail. I also want to add that most artist don't have enough money to hire a lawyer, and thus their rights are just completely run over by a system that only benefits those who have money...
Dibbidy Doo
Dibbidy Doo Aylar önce
Your scenario is nothing like the video, that's an obvious case of infringement and has nothing to do with copyright being broken.
kkcat Aylar önce
We can and do gather together and pool resources together to fight in court. At least we're doing that in concept art and illustration
MrInsecure Aylar önce
There are plenty of lawyers who will work on contingency, meaning they don't get paid unless you get paid, precisely for situations like yours.
JMcAfreak Aylar önce
What you described about others putting your photos through a filter is actually a blatant case of copyright infringement. Those filtered photos are directly derivative of your copyrighted works. The statute of limitations on copyright infringement is three years after the last action. If someone's selling infringing works, that's 3 years since the last sale. If the infringing work is on display on a website, it's 3 years after the image is taken down. So you might want to start writing some cease and desists if infringement is still ongoing, and talk to a lawyer if infringement (sale, distribution, or display) happened within the last 3 years.
Accio Beer
Accio Beer 21 gün önce
We need a new Turing Test where a judge has to read text arguments written by two opposing lawyers and the judge must determine if one or both lawyers are AI. It could be expanded where a lawyer has to decide if their counterpart or even the judge are human.
Luis G.
Luis G. Aylar önce
If I'm not wrong, the case of the picture of Naruto ended with it being part of the public domain. In that case, should some AI-generated images fall into the public domain too, as long as the don't infringe any other copyright?
Kurenai Aylar önce
As far as I know, the _real_ problem that’s been surfacing with AI Art is the uprising ambiguity between genuine and generated content; One infamous case had an artist’s content removed because it resembled AI-generated content. It’s gotten to the point where people have begun to train _themselves_ on how to spot the quirks of AI-generated content so that they aren’t fooled by it. One particular AI-generated piece was able to win against its organic competitors in a freaking _contest!_
Sam Aylar önce
It's the fault of the organizers then. We have chess systems that are more powerful than humans that could potentially be used to cheat in chess competitions but the organizers make sure that everyone plays fair.
that one dude guy
that one dude guy Aylar önce
isnt that more a compliment on the rising skill levels of ai
HJ K Aylar önce
Thanks for keeping things G rated!
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EBthePurple Aylar önce
as an artist, this sets me at ease, thank you.
T͙e͙x͙t͙ m͙e͙ o͙n͙ t͙e͙l͙e͙g͙r͙a͙m͙ LegalEagle0
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Golden Retriever
Golden Retriever Aylar önce
I have thought of a story where a robot who wants to be a lawyer having to represent a robot that wants to be a doctor This is actually very interesting to me
YaBoyJonesy Aylar önce
Careful! Don't share too many details or an AI might steal and write that novel in seconds.
Are the robots self aware? Because most conflict on stuff like “ai art” is that it replaces thinking and creativity for algorithms that cannot think. So what if the machine has true thinking?
Eye See You
Eye See You Aylar önce
Ask GPT to write it!!!
Zyugyzarc Aylar önce
detroit become human vibes
Who Cares
Who Cares Aylar önce
Lame lol
Wilhelmina Beavers
Wilhelmina Beavers Aylar önce
I've always thought of myself as a great mimic writer. I've written scenes of works like Firefly and Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy which have very unique narrative voices, and my work is almost indistinguishable from the original in terms of style. It's an ability I'm proud of but also I've always thought of as useless in misg senses. If only I was an artist of a visual medium, apparently, this skill would actually be worth something! Of course, there is less of a call for me to write a scene that perfectly mimics, say, RDJ as Tony Stark when you can't use the character of Tony Stark, but there you go.
Timothy Bell
Timothy Bell Aylar önce
The Cartoon Mouse Wearing Red Shorts example does raise an interesting question with respect to trademarks, though. What happens if AI Generators use/recreate trademarks without authorization?
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